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Regarding IRC, how do you feel about ircv3 [1]? [1] http://ircv3.org http://ircv3.org

scrollaway 10y ago
I have been following it closely but it feels like too little, too late. IRC is just not the protocol of the future. There's far higher chances for Matrix to become popular or discord to be open sourced.
djsumdog 10y ago
Are there any IRCv3 implementations? Is freenode planning on running it? I'd love a totally OSS alternative to Slack. Maybe we'll see it with the recent Gitter acquisition?
- uvatbc 10y ago
  Rocket Chat (https://github.com/RocketChat https://github.com/RocketChat) is a totally OSS Slack alternative.
- MaxLeiter 10y ago
  Many popular ircd's support different IRCv3 specs. Freenode, Rizon, etc all support different specs/capabilities. You can see a list here: http://ircv3.net/support/networks.html http://ircv3.net/support/networks.html (Warning: bias/plug; I contribute to Lounge) In terms of OSS alternative to slack, I recommend you check out Lounge, a self-hosted JavaScript web client (think: selfhosted IRC version of Slack, minus/plus a few features) https://github.com/thelounge/lounge https://github.com/thelounge/lounge
  - tnone 10y ago
    Slack, minus the ability to gracefully run in any sort of long term roaming context without babysitting. There's no decent reconnecting logic on either client or server, you just have to notice it's gone quiet, and then figure out the undocumented way to restore it without nuking your settings. Only figured out by accident "/connect" without parameters is valid. I tried to fix it, but the client is a pile of terrible code and needs a complete rewrite.
    - MaxLeiter 10y ago
      Well, if you get disconnected and don't get reconnected, the server tab mentions to try `/connect`. Additionally, if you want to rewrite the client, you're welcome to start and open a PR - it's a community-run project. I've had Lounge running for months now without issue. Contributions are always welcome.
- scrollaway 10y ago
  Mattermost is an existing OSS alternative to slack. It's terrible. Gitter is more likely to be good but to be completely honest, it will take a lot of work to not be mediocre. Freenode is part of the IRCv3 working group and I believe uses it internally somehow. IRCCloud is the largest IRCv3 implementation, they are fully IRCv3 compatible afaik.
  - it33 10y ago
    Hi @scrollaway, Thanks for your feedback on Mattermost. Could you share more on what you'd like to see changed? For folks who haven't seen Mattermost, here's a demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKqHWqrAgpk&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKqHWqrAgpk&t=1s Also, I noticed from your HN profile links you're a UX designer. We're actually working on our new generation of mobile apps in React Native (https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-mobile https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-mobile). If you're open to critiquing some of the screenshots from early builds, or even participating in the design discussion, we'd welcome your involvement. Also, we'd welcome you to join our community server at https://pre-release.mattermost.com/ https://pre-release.mattermost.com/ I'm on there as it33 if you want to DM me to share more of your thoughts? PS: Regarding IRC, Mattermost connects to IRC, XMPP, Slack, HipChat, Matrix and other systems via Matterbridge: https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
    - scrollaway 10y ago
      Hi Ian, good to see you here. I really shouldn't have been so harsh :) Mattermost isn't terrible as a product. The issue is that it's not going to replace Slack because, although it's FOSS, it's not an alternative to Slack. Let me elaborate: Very few people know about Mattermost right now unless they use or used Gitlab. Whenever I hear Mattermost brought up, it's associated with Gitlab, which has a reputation of being "the slower, less-good GitHub" (and I love gitlab, don't get me wrong, but I agree with that reputation). Therefore, Mattermost, at least in my circles, has a reputation of being "the less good Slack". And the main issue (unless I'm misunderstanding, but I did go through your pricing page again to double check) is that you do not offer SaaS except to enterprises. Which is super backwards. You're not going to be able to gather mindshare if you require people to set up your product themselves to even just try them out. Nearly none of your potential users have the expertise to do that, and those that do aren't going to want to do it unless they know what they're getting into beforehand. The only remaining ones that already do are Gitlab users, because they've had it set up for them. Github, Travis, Slack, Discord, Sentry, half of the integrations you find on GH, what do they have in common? They're hosted and free to try. Make a free hosted version, make it very limited if you have to and promote upgrades/self-hosting, and then you have a shot at getting solid mindshare. On a lesser note, since you asked for feedback, here's a couple more pieces of advice: - The demo video you linked me is great. I see Mattermost has changed quite a bit since I last tried it, for the better. So I visited mattermost.com to try and get another look and it's super barebones on screenshots, I found no videos, there's no demo. After browsing the site, I have no feel for what mattermost looks like. And you don't link to your community server anywhere I could find, not even on your contact page! - Consider making public Mattermost instances optionally readable without an account - read only, and enable that for your community server!. This would differenciate you from Slack and Discord and would improve the situation above. I realize it's a lot of work. - On pricing again, it's irresponsible to put 2FA behind Enterprise only. Please don't do that. Push notifications could also stand to be in the free version, imho. Cheers, hope that helps. My email is on my profile if you want to talk about this further.

I have been following it closely but it feels like too little, too late. IRC is just not the protocol of the future. There's far higher chances for Matrix to become popular or discord to be open sourced.

djsumdog 10y ago

Are there any IRCv3 implementations? Is freenode planning on running it? I'd love a totally OSS alternative to Slack. Maybe we'll see it with the recent Gitter acquisition?

uvatbc 10y ago
Rocket Chat (https://github.com/RocketChat https://github.com/RocketChat) is a totally OSS Slack alternative.
MaxLeiter 10y ago
Many popular ircd's support different IRCv3 specs. Freenode, Rizon, etc all support different specs/capabilities. You can see a list here: http://ircv3.net/support/networks.html http://ircv3.net/support/networks.html (Warning: bias/plug; I contribute to Lounge) In terms of OSS alternative to slack, I recommend you check out Lounge, a self-hosted JavaScript web client (think: selfhosted IRC version of Slack, minus/plus a few features) https://github.com/thelounge/lounge https://github.com/thelounge/lounge
- tnone 10y ago
  Slack, minus the ability to gracefully run in any sort of long term roaming context without babysitting. There's no decent reconnecting logic on either client or server, you just have to notice it's gone quiet, and then figure out the undocumented way to restore it without nuking your settings. Only figured out by accident "/connect" without parameters is valid. I tried to fix it, but the client is a pile of terrible code and needs a complete rewrite.
  - MaxLeiter 10y ago
    Well, if you get disconnected and don't get reconnected, the server tab mentions to try `/connect`. Additionally, if you want to rewrite the client, you're welcome to start and open a PR - it's a community-run project. I've had Lounge running for months now without issue. Contributions are always welcome.
scrollaway 10y ago
Mattermost is an existing OSS alternative to slack. It's terrible. Gitter is more likely to be good but to be completely honest, it will take a lot of work to not be mediocre. Freenode is part of the IRCv3 working group and I believe uses it internally somehow. IRCCloud is the largest IRCv3 implementation, they are fully IRCv3 compatible afaik.
- it33 10y ago
  Hi @scrollaway, Thanks for your feedback on Mattermost. Could you share more on what you'd like to see changed? For folks who haven't seen Mattermost, here's a demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKqHWqrAgpk&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKqHWqrAgpk&t=1s Also, I noticed from your HN profile links you're a UX designer. We're actually working on our new generation of mobile apps in React Native (https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-mobile https://github.com/mattermost/mattermost-mobile). If you're open to critiquing some of the screenshots from early builds, or even participating in the design discussion, we'd welcome your involvement. Also, we'd welcome you to join our community server at https://pre-release.mattermost.com/ https://pre-release.mattermost.com/ I'm on there as it33 if you want to DM me to share more of your thoughts? PS: Regarding IRC, Mattermost connects to IRC, XMPP, Slack, HipChat, Matrix and other systems via Matterbridge: https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
  - scrollaway 10y ago
    Hi Ian, good to see you here. I really shouldn't have been so harsh :) Mattermost isn't terrible as a product. The issue is that it's not going to replace Slack because, although it's FOSS, it's not an alternative to Slack. Let me elaborate: Very few people know about Mattermost right now unless they use or used Gitlab. Whenever I hear Mattermost brought up, it's associated with Gitlab, which has a reputation of being "the slower, less-good GitHub" (and I love gitlab, don't get me wrong, but I agree with that reputation). Therefore, Mattermost, at least in my circles, has a reputation of being "the less good Slack". And the main issue (unless I'm misunderstanding, but I did go through your pricing page again to double check) is that you do not offer SaaS except to enterprises. Which is super backwards. You're not going to be able to gather mindshare if you require people to set up your product themselves to even just try them out. Nearly none of your potential users have the expertise to do that, and those that do aren't going to want to do it unless they know what they're getting into beforehand. The only remaining ones that already do are Gitlab users, because they've had it set up for them. Github, Travis, Slack, Discord, Sentry, half of the integrations you find on GH, what do they have in common? They're hosted and free to try. Make a free hosted version, make it very limited if you have to and promote upgrades/self-hosting, and then you have a shot at getting solid mindshare. On a lesser note, since you asked for feedback, here's a couple more pieces of advice: - The demo video you linked me is great. I see Mattermost has changed quite a bit since I last tried it, for the better. So I visited mattermost.com to try and get another look and it's super barebones on screenshots, I found no videos, there's no demo. After browsing the site, I have no feel for what mattermost looks like. And you don't link to your community server anywhere I could find, not even on your contact page! - Consider making public Mattermost instances optionally readable without an account - read only, and enable that for your community server!. This would differenciate you from Slack and Discord and would improve the situation above. I realize it's a lot of work. - On pricing again, it's irresponsible to put 2FA behind Enterprise only. Please don't do that. Push notifications could also stand to be in the free version, imho. Cheers, hope that helps. My email is on my profile if you want to talk about this further.