6 ms·

- Move to California where everyone is on something. Including the police and judge. - Try applying to Apple. Steve Jobs is quote for saying everyone should try

- Move to California where everyone is on something. Including the police and judge. - Try applying to Apple. Steve Jobs is quote for saying everyone should try lsd - build a cool side project so any company who passes is obviously denying you a job based on your criminal record. Aka discrimination. Take the fuckers to court and own the company at the end of the day

RightMillennial 10y ago
Steve Jobs saying everyone should try LSD is not the same as actually getting a felony for illegal drug possession. Honest question: Is it actually illegal to discriminate in the hiring process based on criminal record? Especially if it's a felony?
- mrits 10y ago
  Of course it is legal. You can't even get most government jobs.
- fedcba98765 10y ago
  I never understood why people in comment sections ask something that can easily be googled. I'm not you secretary, do your own work if you question something, but sense you're lazy... by the definition of discrimination and the federal law about discrimination, it is illegal. However, we have a legal system not a justice system so most citizens are screwed.
  - RightMillennial 10y ago
    Your original post made it sound like discriminating by criminal record was illegal. Most of the time when discrimination is used as a pejorative, illegality is implied. I always assumed it was legal, but then again I know nothing about laws in CA so I thought maybe it actually is illegal in CA.
    - fedcba98765 10y ago
      Discrimination is illegal. Doesn't matter how. However, we have a legal system not a justice system so citizens are screwed.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Honest question: Is it actually illegal to discriminate in the hiring process based on criminal record? Not directly. I mean, given the disparate impact on protected classes, you could maybe make a case that of their isn't some clear business justification, it's indirect, e.g., racial discrimination and illegal for that reason, but I suspect it wouldn't take much to convince a court of the justification of most real-world policies involving criminal-record discrimination.
  - fedcba98765 10y ago
    Justifying discrimination? That sounds like a dark road to be on.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      "Discrimination" just means differentiating on some factor to make a decision; every hiring decision involves discrimination on some set of factors. There are, obviously, inappropriate and illegal bases for discrimination, but without any discrimination, the only way to make decisions is randomly (and even that is, really, discrimination based on alignment with the results of your source of randomness.)
- mchannon 10y ago
  A lot of misinformation on here. The short answer is it depends on where you live. Many states and localities, particularly in California, have enacted "ban the box" laws. ("the box" in this particular case is a box you must check if you have been convicted of any crime). The rationale behind these laws is that ex-cons who are potentially productive members of society don't need to keep getting punished after they served their time. Can you discriminate against someone for having a criminal record? Yes, but if there's enough of a paper trail, and you're in one of these localities, they can sue you under these laws. Most of these laws have exceptions for, say, sex offenders applying at daycares, or check fraudsters applying at banks, but the decision has to be appropriately documented. SF and LA are pushing the laws even harder. They've recognized that ex-cons who can't find decent work will just end up burdening the system further by reoffending, rather than paying taxes and working. If they're square with the house, the house must be square with them.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    "Ban the box" laws do not prohibit consideration of criminal record in hiring, it only prohibits the question in initial application and delays background check until later in the hiring process, to discourage it's use as a blanket filter before other candidate qualifications are known. A handful of local jurisdictions have adopted additional restrictions on use of criminal background in hiring beyond "ban the box"—so-called "fair chance in hiring" laws—but none of them go so far as to prohibit use of criminal history as a factor in employment.
smt88 10y ago
"Criminal status" is not a protected class in the US, and it's unlikely someone would be able to sue if her job application were rejected only on this basis.
- fedcba98765 10y ago
  By definition of discrimination, judging someone based on their criminal record is discrimination. The law can say whatever it wants. That doesn't change the meaning of words.
  - zer00eyz 10y ago
    > The law can say whatever it wants. You understand that the law, is a thing unto itself. The language of the law may use english but the words start to take on very different meanings. If you haven't you should listen lenny bruce. His take on the law is second to none. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klrml3tI29E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klrml3tI29E
  - smt88 10y ago
    "Discrimination" = choosing between things based on their differences Discrimination is not always illegal. Discriminating based on certain characteristics is illegal. You implied that OP could sue for discrimination, and s/he can't. Based on your other comments, I think you're the one who needs to do some googling...

RightMillennial 10y ago

Steve Jobs saying everyone should try LSD is not the same as actually getting a felony for illegal drug possession. Honest question: Is it actually illegal to discriminate in the hiring process based on criminal record? Especially if it's a felony?

mrits 10y ago
Of course it is legal. You can't even get most government jobs.
fedcba98765 10y ago
I never understood why people in comment sections ask something that can easily be googled. I'm not you secretary, do your own work if you question something, but sense you're lazy... by the definition of discrimination and the federal law about discrimination, it is illegal. However, we have a legal system not a justice system so most citizens are screwed.
- RightMillennial 10y ago
  Your original post made it sound like discriminating by criminal record was illegal. Most of the time when discrimination is used as a pejorative, illegality is implied. I always assumed it was legal, but then again I know nothing about laws in CA so I thought maybe it actually is illegal in CA.
  - fedcba98765 10y ago
    Discrimination is illegal. Doesn't matter how. However, we have a legal system not a justice system so citizens are screwed.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Honest question: Is it actually illegal to discriminate in the hiring process based on criminal record? Not directly. I mean, given the disparate impact on protected classes, you could maybe make a case that of their isn't some clear business justification, it's indirect, e.g., racial discrimination and illegal for that reason, but I suspect it wouldn't take much to convince a court of the justification of most real-world policies involving criminal-record discrimination.
- fedcba98765 10y ago
  Justifying discrimination? That sounds like a dark road to be on.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    "Discrimination" just means differentiating on some factor to make a decision; every hiring decision involves discrimination on some set of factors. There are, obviously, inappropriate and illegal bases for discrimination, but without any discrimination, the only way to make decisions is randomly (and even that is, really, discrimination based on alignment with the results of your source of randomness.)
mchannon 10y ago
A lot of misinformation on here. The short answer is it depends on where you live. Many states and localities, particularly in California, have enacted "ban the box" laws. ("the box" in this particular case is a box you must check if you have been convicted of any crime). The rationale behind these laws is that ex-cons who are potentially productive members of society don't need to keep getting punished after they served their time. Can you discriminate against someone for having a criminal record? Yes, but if there's enough of a paper trail, and you're in one of these localities, they can sue you under these laws. Most of these laws have exceptions for, say, sex offenders applying at daycares, or check fraudsters applying at banks, but the decision has to be appropriately documented. SF and LA are pushing the laws even harder. They've recognized that ex-cons who can't find decent work will just end up burdening the system further by reoffending, rather than paying taxes and working. If they're square with the house, the house must be square with them.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  "Ban the box" laws do not prohibit consideration of criminal record in hiring, it only prohibits the question in initial application and delays background check until later in the hiring process, to discourage it's use as a blanket filter before other candidate qualifications are known. A handful of local jurisdictions have adopted additional restrictions on use of criminal background in hiring beyond "ban the box"—so-called "fair chance in hiring" laws—but none of them go so far as to prohibit use of criminal history as a factor in employment.

smt88 10y ago

"Criminal status" is not a protected class in the US, and it's unlikely someone would be able to sue if her job application were rejected only on this basis.

fedcba98765 10y ago
By definition of discrimination, judging someone based on their criminal record is discrimination. The law can say whatever it wants. That doesn't change the meaning of words.
- zer00eyz 10y ago
  > The law can say whatever it wants. You understand that the law, is a thing unto itself. The language of the law may use english but the words start to take on very different meanings. If you haven't you should listen lenny bruce. His take on the law is second to none. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klrml3tI29E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klrml3tI29E
- smt88 10y ago
  "Discrimination" = choosing between things based on their differences Discrimination is not always illegal. Discriminating based on certain characteristics is illegal. You implied that OP could sue for discrimination, and s/he can't. Based on your other comments, I think you're the one who needs to do some googling...