7 ms·

Will my earning potential be severely limited as a felon?

15 points by ConvictDev 10y ago

Last year in February I was arrested and charged with 4 counts of possession with intent to distribute (I had small amounts of 4 different drugs). My case is a few months away from coming to a close. While there's a small chance I could receive a deal that drops my charges after successful completion of probation, it's somewhat likely I will instead do probation and receive the convictions. I fear that if I receive the convictions (which cannot be expunged in my state) then I will be limited to small companies with mediocre pay. Is this true? Are my hopes of making a great living in this field squandered because I screwed up, admittedly totally, at one point in my life? I'm re enrolling in school this fall and still have 3 ish years to go due to switching majors to CS. Showing that I can finish school will work on my favor. Are there any other things I can be doing to improve my chances of finding a great job after school if I do indeed receive convictions? Thanks :)

bbcbasic 10y ago
I don't know the answer but I'll say good luck, and the "lemonade from the lemons" might be to just start your own business / startup / freelance from the beginning and enjoy never having a boss or a scrum meeting.
senior_james 10y ago
If it was murder or embezzlement? Yes. Most employers don't really care about drug charges.
tmaly 10y ago
I had a roommate in college that served time for a crime. He was only able to get jobs as a short order cook or as a roofer. But given the resources to start your own company, even if it is bootstrapped, I think you have more options today than he did back them.
fedcba98765 10y ago
- Move to California where everyone is on something. Including the police and judge. - Try applying to Apple. Steve Jobs is quote for saying everyone should try lsd - build a cool side project so any company who passes is obviously denying you a job based on your criminal record. Aka discrimination. Take the fuckers to court and own the company at the end of the day
- RightMillennial 10y ago
  Steve Jobs saying everyone should try LSD is not the same as actually getting a felony for illegal drug possession. Honest question: Is it actually illegal to discriminate in the hiring process based on criminal record? Especially if it's a felony?
  - mrits 10y ago
    Of course it is legal. You can't even get most government jobs.
  - fedcba98765 10y ago
    I never understood why people in comment sections ask something that can easily be googled. I'm not you secretary, do your own work if you question something, but sense you're lazy... by the definition of discrimination and the federal law about discrimination, it is illegal. However, we have a legal system not a justice system so most citizens are screwed.
    - RightMillennial 10y ago
      Your original post made it sound like discriminating by criminal record was illegal. Most of the time when discrimination is used as a pejorative, illegality is implied. I always assumed it was legal, but then again I know nothing about laws in CA so I thought maybe it actually is illegal in CA.
      - fedcba98765 10y ago
        Discrimination is illegal. Doesn't matter how. However, we have a legal system not a justice system so citizens are screwed.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Honest question: Is it actually illegal to discriminate in the hiring process based on criminal record? Not directly. I mean, given the disparate impact on protected classes, you could maybe make a case that of their isn't some clear business justification, it's indirect, e.g., racial discrimination and illegal for that reason, but I suspect it wouldn't take much to convince a court of the justification of most real-world policies involving criminal-record discrimination.
hijinks 10y ago
just be honest if you do get a felony if asked about it. If you lie and they do a background check and find it then that's an auto-no. To be honest half of SV is on something or the other. So drug use / arrest for it for a small amount shouldn't be a big issue
anondaway 10y ago
In short no. I make over 200k base. I was in the same boat but with worse drug charges. Very few startups will do background checks and after 7yrs an employment background check in california legally cant show convictions before then anyways. Its not like you killed or raped someone. Plus, dont pay lip service to the thought police. You ingested a drug and theres nothing wrong with that. Lie to the judge and say you're sorry if you must but they are in the wrong not you.
- ConvictDev 10y ago
  This gives me hope. I realize you don't want to share personal information, but assuming you do have felonies (or even if you don't), how did you get into a position of making 200k base? Are you working for a small or larger company? I'm also assuming you're in SV. Once I finish school (I live in the Midwest) I plan on moving to the northwest or SV. Or really wherever I have the best chances with.
smt88 10y ago
I think you'll be OK if you can manage your Google search results to hide your conviction as best you can. Many small companies will limit their "background check" to Googling your name.
mindcrime 10y ago
If your felony was murder or rape or something, I think the answer would be "yes". But under the circumstances, I think you will find lots of companies (probably startups in particular) are run by people who don't care about a "possession with intent" charge. If we were in a position to hire right now, and I were evaluating you as a candidate, it would barely factor in at all. Hell, I might even consider it a positive. But I'm a government hating libertarian who thinks all drug laws should be abolished, so my position may be a bit unique.
zer00eyz 10y ago
As an interesting note: Lots of companies that do background checks aren't doing them to see if you have an arrest record at all. They are doing them to see if you have been honest and if you haven't been convicted of financial crimes, or computer crimes. The former is a big deal if you do credit card processing and money handling, the latter may or may not be an issue depending on what it is and who you are working for. Smaller companies give a lot of leeway to hiring managers, and there are jobs that you may be excluded from, but it isn't the end of the world. Honestly, places that believe past performance is a predictor of future results need a reality check. Peoples lives, and circumstances change enough that it isn't a good predictor of anything. As you are a CS student, I highly recommend that you start working on and contributing to open source projects and personal projects. Working as an engineer ends one of three ways... You spend your years pushing the buttons and collecting a check, you do that same thing and get lucky with an exit or you start doing your own thing. That last one gives you mastery over your own fate and destiny and is the way a lot of us are really getting ahead. It is much easier to try and fail when your young... eating ramen, working long hours aren't as rough on you and not having kids or dependents are big factors to you being able to sustain a lifestyle that those of us who are older don't have as easy of a time doing.
- ConvictDev 10y ago
  I ultimately plan on starting my own thing. Whether that be consulting, or SaaS, or whatever, I'm not sure. But I don't feel I'll ever be fulfilled until I'm making money for myself. I'm going to be graduating with quite a lot above the average student debt, though, so my first 5 ish years after school I plan on spending as an employee, gaining skills and dumping everything I can towards the loans. Thank you for your response!
  - brianwawok 10y ago
    As your own boss I doubt anyone would know.
tabeth 10y ago
The short answer is: if you're a minority, yes. If you're white, no. Either way your potential will be harmed, but like many things, this can be overcome as well. You'll have to be probably way above average to overcome the "gravity" that will hold you back as a felon. After that I'd say there will be no more barriers, sans management positions.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  That's an incredibly ignorant statement.
  - tabeth 10y ago
    Really? This is common knowledge. Just go read the book -- Marked: Race, Crime and Finding Work in an Era of Mass Incarceration. Why pretend like being black isn't a severe disadvantage in terms of almost every metric you can think of? Failing to acknowledge reality just perpetuates inequity. Sorry, but I'm not sugar coating reality for felons, white or black. People saying "you'll be fine" are just lying, full-stop. You will not be fine. You may be able to succeed, as many ex-felons have (which is really just survivorship bias as many felons stop looking for work all together), but your success will pale in comparison compared to the alternate self where you were not a felon. The discrimination against felons in the United States is borderline a human rights violation. I wonder how many people in this thread have actually talked to felons who are looking for a job. - http://thecrimereport.s3.amazonaws.com/2/fb/e/2362/criminal_stigma_race_crime_and_unemployment.pdf http://thecrimereport.s3.amazonaws.com/2/fb/e/2362/criminal_... - https://thinkprogress.org/a-black-college-student-has-the-same-chances-of-getting-a-job-as-a-white-high-school-dropout-b7639607fdf1#.sm40skwnr https://thinkprogress.org/a-black-college-student-has-the-sa... - https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2011/dec/15/study-shows-ex-offenders-have-greatly-reduced-employment-rates/ https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2011/dec/15/study-shows... In any case, if you have evidence suggesting that a felony doesn't ridiculously reduce your employment prospects and earning potential (among other things), I'd love to see it.
    - ConvictDev 10y ago
akulbe 10y ago
We should talk. My info is in my profile.
Spooky23 10y ago
Felony convictions will close many doors, especially at large companies. Focus on places with "ban the box" laws and jobs that don't have direct impact with financial or health data. You'll be fine. Hold yourself to a higher standard going forward and you'll be fine.
sjg007 10y ago
get a lawyer and get the charges reduced to misdemeanors.
i336_ 10y ago
This thread from 3 years (1223 days) ago discussed this topic rather thoroughly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6750043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6750043
gtirloni 10y ago
"with the intent to distribute" is what you need to figure out how to explain to a hiring manager (if that's on your record like that, I have no idea how detailed that information might be). Questions like what were you thinking, did you know the law, the consequences, etc. The hiring manager probably couldn't care less about drugs, they want to assess your ability to make judgements. In any case, I'd suggest you keep your dev skills above average. That will help make this situation less important. With a shortage of skilled professionals, certain things can be ignored provided they aren't too blatant (or are shown to have improved).

tabeth 10y ago
I'm sorry about your situation, but I think the people telling you "it'll be fine" are creating a reality you're not going to see. That being said, you can still see success in your career (with tech, primarily) that exceed most non-felon people in the United States in terms of wages. However, when you get to this point, you'll realize that you would've succeeded even more had you not been a felon. Anyway, I digress. Some notes from talking to hiring managers at my company: 1. I suspect HR just passes on felons directly during the application phase. What this means for you is that you need to bypass this. So if you pursue tech, networking is going to become super crucial for you. 2. Something like crime would prove to be a tie-breaker if things are hard to judge. Given the lack of objectivity during tech interviews, this will put you at a disadvantage. In order to get your foot in the door, I would try to a "big fish in a small pond." Meaning, apply at smaller companies, non-profits, etc. Places where tech isn't the primary focus and show value. 3. I assume you've seen this site [1]. I was reading an article a long time ago and saw it referenced. Hopefully it can be of use to you. 4. What I would strongly recommend is just becoming as good as you can, building your network as indicated in (1) and just contract and freelance. You know much better than I do. The discrimination against you for being a felon (even if it's non-violent) is offensive. [1] https://exoffenders.net/ https://exoffenders.net/
- ConvictDev 10y ago
  I see what you're saying. I'm hoping and praying for a deal where I don't get the convictions at all. That would quiet all my worries. It's a definite chance, but I'm planning for the worst. I will definitely take into account everything you said. Still, I have a slimmer of hope that over time, when the charges (or convictions) are 7-10+ years old, and depending on where I'm living at the time, I could see just as much success as anyone else, felon or not. Surely if a guy has very strong technical skills, great people skills, and valuable connections, the convictions could become a non-issue over time since he is valuable otherwise. But, we will see. Thanks for your advice :).
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Hopefully you have a good attorney. Make sure to demonstrate that you have ties to the community. Get letters from friends, teachers, relatives, coworkers, etc tonget in front of the judge and prosecutor. You sound like someone who got caught up in something. Show that regret and accept responsibility. I haven't been through this, but I know people who have... good luck.