4 ms·

This is what happens when you mindlessly optimise for metrics like user signups - not surprisingly, you get more signups when you block the content with an obno

by Lxr 10y ago

This is what happens when you mindlessly optimise for metrics like user signups - not surprisingly, you get more signups when you block the content with an obnoxious modal but after a few years, you wonder where all your users went. How much value do you really get from a user who was forced to sign up with a gun to their head?

cmahler7 10y ago
this, people are too worried about the size of their list as opposed to actual engagement. If they don't open your emails they're just costing you money with your ESP. If you have good content people will search hard for a way to get on your email list if necessary, i've done it before.
- spinlock 10y ago
  this is why it's good to require a credit card for a free trial. it will kill the top of your funnel but the bottom will actually get fatter because those who do sign up for the free trial actually want to demo your software.
  - zipwitch 10y ago
    Are there numbers behind that reasoning? I ask, because that doesn't match up well with my (anecdotal) experience as an end user. When I'm searching for software to either replace something I'm currently using but dissatisfied with or when I'm doing something new (to me), I want to demo candidates so I can get a feel whether I like them or not. I don't mind paying for quality software (though much quality software is free), but requiring credit card info for even a demo is the exact sort of hurdle which I won't put up with. The cost (in time, and potentially wasted time in the future) is just too high.
    - dkersten 10y ago
      Yep, my experience is similar. I've bought tons of stuff online over the years and not once ever have I bought if I had to contact sales or had to fill out a lengthy form [1] in order to get a demo or price. This includes during the two startups I cofounded (ie where I was the person making the company purchase decisions). [1] I'll fill out short "email, name, company (if optional), industry" form but only if I don't think some salesperson is going to give me a call.
  - WalterSear 10y ago
    ...and lose all the people who might have been on the fence, but willing to give your product 1/2 a chance.
  - wl 10y ago
    I will not sign up for a demo that requires I provide real information unless I have no other choice. It's not that I'm not serious about buying. Rather, I have no patience for spamming or harassment from salespeople.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Depends on what and who you are selling to. For business purchases, the compliance and other risk is way too high for me to do that. You get knocked off the list if you require that.
- andrenotgiant 10y ago
  I manage the newsletter signups for a developer-focused company. I have a graph on a dashboard that shows "Fucks Given" for the newsletter signup. Essentially how many `fuckoff@fuckyou.com` type signups happen per week. Any time we try and increase the number of signups by changing the form, we also make sure that the number of "Fucks Given" stays as close to zero as possible. (Some people are just angry.)
ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago
And to top it off click a misguided 'cute' attempt at making you change your mind with a further obnoxious button titled 'No I am not interested in <improving my life/earning more money/caring for my family>'. No doubt further inspired by this sort of optimization study.
bernardlunn 10y ago
Yes, cannot vote up twice
betenoire 10y ago
Gun to the head? Some companies don't want "users" they want paying customers. The article does not do a good job at all at explaining the context of their frustration other than "Ugh I don't like being treated like this, therefore other people don't, therefore it's bad". I'd say the article is downright bad. It assumes there is only one use for a modal: abuse.
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  If you instantly pop a modal which completely obscures your page on the very first visit to your site, then yes - that's abuse of the modal paradigm. This is the modal the original author is referring to. Not all modals.
djsumdog 10y ago
..but the thing is, they do work. They don't wonder where their users went because their numbers don't actually go down. Even e-mail spam has a 1% ~ 2% return rate. That's why we still have spam. Sure you and I never click on those boxes, or disable javascript on offending pages, but the majority of web users do not. Many people do stick in an e-mail address, even if it's a bulk mail/spam address. Still, some people put in an address they actually check. That tiny amount of people, generate revenue. I mean really ... the problem is people. It's okay though, one day we'll go extinct .. or we'll colonise beyond our solar system .. or someone already did that 2nd part and we're just in a simulation of said creatures. Sleep well.

by Lxr 10y ago

cmahler7 10y ago

this, people are too worried about the size of their list as opposed to actual engagement. If they don't open your emails they're just costing you money with your ESP. If you have good content people will search hard for a way to get on your email list if necessary, i've done it before.

spinlock 10y ago
this is why it's good to require a credit card for a free trial. it will kill the top of your funnel but the bottom will actually get fatter because those who do sign up for the free trial actually want to demo your software.
- zipwitch 10y ago
  Are there numbers behind that reasoning? I ask, because that doesn't match up well with my (anecdotal) experience as an end user. When I'm searching for software to either replace something I'm currently using but dissatisfied with or when I'm doing something new (to me), I want to demo candidates so I can get a feel whether I like them or not. I don't mind paying for quality software (though much quality software is free), but requiring credit card info for even a demo is the exact sort of hurdle which I won't put up with. The cost (in time, and potentially wasted time in the future) is just too high.
  - dkersten 10y ago
    Yep, my experience is similar. I've bought tons of stuff online over the years and not once ever have I bought if I had to contact sales or had to fill out a lengthy form [1] in order to get a demo or price. This includes during the two startups I cofounded (ie where I was the person making the company purchase decisions). [1] I'll fill out short "email, name, company (if optional), industry" form but only if I don't think some salesperson is going to give me a call.
- WalterSear 10y ago
  ...and lose all the people who might have been on the fence, but willing to give your product 1/2 a chance.
- wl 10y ago
  I will not sign up for a demo that requires I provide real information unless I have no other choice. It's not that I'm not serious about buying. Rather, I have no patience for spamming or harassment from salespeople.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Depends on what and who you are selling to. For business purchases, the compliance and other risk is way too high for me to do that. You get knocked off the list if you require that.
andrenotgiant 10y ago
I manage the newsletter signups for a developer-focused company. I have a graph on a dashboard that shows "Fucks Given" for the newsletter signup. Essentially how many `fuckoff@fuckyou.com` type signups happen per week. Any time we try and increase the number of signups by changing the form, we also make sure that the number of "Fucks Given" stays as close to zero as possible. (Some people are just angry.)

ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago

And to top it off click a misguided 'cute' attempt at making you change your mind with a further obnoxious button titled 'No I am not interested in <improving my life/earning more money/caring for my family>'. No doubt further inspired by this sort of optimization study.

bernardlunn 10y ago

Yes, cannot vote up twice

betenoire 10y ago

Gun to the head? Some companies don't want "users" they want paying customers. The article does not do a good job at all at explaining the context of their frustration other than "Ugh I don't like being treated like this, therefore other people don't, therefore it's bad". I'd say the article is downright bad. It assumes there is only one use for a modal: abuse.

chadgeidel 10y ago
If you instantly pop a modal which completely obscures your page on the very first visit to your site, then yes - that's abuse of the modal paradigm. This is the modal the original author is referring to. Not all modals.

djsumdog 10y ago

..but the thing is, they do work. They don't wonder where their users went because their numbers don't actually go down. Even e-mail spam has a 1% ~ 2% return rate. That's why we still have spam. Sure you and I never click on those boxes, or disable javascript on offending pages, but the majority of web users do not. Many people do stick in an e-mail address, even if it's a bulk mail/spam address. Still, some people put in an address they actually check. That tiny amount of people, generate revenue. I mean really ... the problem is people. It's okay though, one day we'll go extinct .. or we'll colonise beyond our solar system .. or someone already did that 2nd part and we're just in a simulation of said creatures. Sleep well.