4 ms·

Here's something that worked well for me: I deferred the salary question until after I'd had some contact with my potential employer (rather than the recruiter)

Here's something that worked well for me: I deferred the salary question until after I'd had some contact with my potential employer (rather than the recruiter) so they had a sense of my value. Then, when asked what my current salary was, I said something along the lines of the following: "my current salary is well below where I want it to be, because I started out in a low-level job and worked my way up getting the usual incremental pay rises when I changed jobs. I'm currently on £XX,XXX but rather than give me an incremental offer I want you to give me an honest offer of what you think I am worth". It depends on the company, but in my experience SMEs aren't out to screw people on salary and being honest and straightforward netted me a much more generous offer than I would have gotten otherwise. Many of the comments in this thread seem to advocate using tricks to fight the tricks that recruiters use, but sometimes being honest and letting your potential employer see your perspective can work wonders. Especially once you've gotten to know them a little bit in an interview or phone call so they don't feel like they're taking a gamble by employing you.

sneak 10y ago
It has nothing to do with "screwing people". This is terrible advice. Salary negotiation is the single most important financial decision you will make in your life. That shit compounds, son! Do. Not. Give. Them. A. Figure. First. Don't! @patio11 explains why in exquisite detail here: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  you say all this like I suggested anything different. Salary negotiation is important, and in my experience the worst thing you can do is either mentally commit to taking the job before you negotiate a salary, or sow the seeds of mutual distrust early on. If you try to pull the same bullshit on the recruiter that they're pulling on you then you're playing their game on their terms. What I've suggested, contrary to your (unnecessarily abrasive) reply, is not to give up on negotiations but to push past the impersonal arguing over numbers and get to the actual negotiation at hand by laying not only your own cards, but the other person's cards, on the table. You implicitly say up front "if you try to pull the same old $salary * 1.1 game with me I'll turn down your offer" while also laying out what your expectation is. You name a number, and say "that number is not good enough, make it better" and thus leave the ball in their court. This is not you saying "well I want a better salary than I have now, I make £20,000 and I will accept £27,000" - you're saying "well I want a better salary than I have now, I know I'm underpaid, I make £20,000 right now - it's on you to guess what I place my value at, but you know it's not a small jump". All this without making you look like a distrustful asshole like many of the previous suggestions would do. Oh, and I forgot to mention in my previous comment - you can be ambiguous about the amount you make too if you want, e.g. "I make below market rate" or "I make about 2/3 of what my friend makes for the same job". But it's very transparent.
  - sneak 10y ago
    You suggested giving a number first. Your mental gymnastics about why that is justified or professional do not somehow make that a game-theoretical good choice. Seriously, you don't come across as "distrustful asshole" when you repeatedly refuse to divulge it, you come across as competent at business. Transparency is not your friend in a negotiation. You profit from having secrets. Every professional negotiator knows this.
    - beaconstudios 10y ago
      your black-and-white view of "giving a number" and complete refusal to seemingly even read my comment shows that there's no point trying to explain this to you again.

sneak 10y ago

It has nothing to do with "screwing people". This is terrible advice. Salary negotiation is the single most important financial decision you will make in your life. That shit compounds, son! Do. Not. Give. Them. A. Figure. First. Don't! @patio11 explains why in exquisite detail here: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

beaconstudios 10y ago
you say all this like I suggested anything different. Salary negotiation is important, and in my experience the worst thing you can do is either mentally commit to taking the job before you negotiate a salary, or sow the seeds of mutual distrust early on. If you try to pull the same bullshit on the recruiter that they're pulling on you then you're playing their game on their terms. What I've suggested, contrary to your (unnecessarily abrasive) reply, is not to give up on negotiations but to push past the impersonal arguing over numbers and get to the actual negotiation at hand by laying not only your own cards, but the other person's cards, on the table. You implicitly say up front "if you try to pull the same old $salary * 1.1 game with me I'll turn down your offer" while also laying out what your expectation is. You name a number, and say "that number is not good enough, make it better" and thus leave the ball in their court. This is not you saying "well I want a better salary than I have now, I make £20,000 and I will accept £27,000" - you're saying "well I want a better salary than I have now, I know I'm underpaid, I make £20,000 right now - it's on you to guess what I place my value at, but you know it's not a small jump". All this without making you look like a distrustful asshole like many of the previous suggestions would do. Oh, and I forgot to mention in my previous comment - you can be ambiguous about the amount you make too if you want, e.g. "I make below market rate" or "I make about 2/3 of what my friend makes for the same job". But it's very transparent.
- sneak 10y ago
  You suggested giving a number first. Your mental gymnastics about why that is justified or professional do not somehow make that a game-theoretical good choice. Seriously, you don't come across as "distrustful asshole" when you repeatedly refuse to divulge it, you come across as competent at business. Transparency is not your friend in a negotiation. You profit from having secrets. Every professional negotiator knows this.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    your black-and-white view of "giving a number" and complete refusal to seemingly even read my comment shows that there's no point trying to explain this to you again.