4 ms·

Out-of-place artifacts[1] are cool. A really interesting one is the Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca head[2], a part of a terracotta figurine that was found in a pre-Colum

Out-of-place artifacts[1] are cool. A really interesting one is the Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca head[2], a part of a terracotta figurine that was found in a pre-Columbian site in Mexico that is speculated to have Roman origin. Learning more about this is actually kind of hard. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of pseudoarchaeology concerning pre-Columbian transoceanic contact. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-place_artifact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-place_artifact [2] http://www.unm.edu/~rhristov/calixtlahuaca.html http://www.unm.edu/~rhristov/calixtlahuaca.html

noobermin 10y ago
I'm a physicist, and I imagine this sort of thing are like studies looking for magnetic monopoles, really out there stuff that capture the imagination of the public and non-experts, but are fringe and/or really difficult to get funding for vs. the usual, safe path.
- ianai 10y ago
  I doubt it's necessarily that crazy. There's a lot more to the world and human history than documented. Plus, for some reason, 'the west' tends to have an insular viewpoint. Oddball physics has fewer avenues of 'being true but unobserved'. I need sleep.
  - simonh 10y ago
    We have enough provable, documented examples of very long range contact and trade that it seems highly implausible that there was no such contact that we aren't aware of. If a Christian monk can be born near Beijing in 1220, walk all the way to Europe and meet the pope then it' beggars belief that similar journeys were never done in more ancient times. After all Marco Polo wasn't the first European to go to China either, his father and uncle had been there before him. I do accept that we have to distinguish between mythology and history, but lets analyse this according to scientific principles for a moment. If you have a theory and it accurately predicts what happens, we call that science. If the Aztec believed there were bearded white people living beyond the eastern sea that would one day come and conquer them, then it actually goes and happens, then I think it’s reasonable to take the origins of that belief seriously.
    - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
      Travelling over the medieval Silk Road though was much easier and safer than oceanic travel.
lb1lf 10y ago
One of my favourites (being Norwegian an'all) is the Maine Penny [1]. IMHO the most likely explanation is that it is either a modern-day hoax (that is, planted at the dig site) or a result of native American trading (After all, the fact that there were Norse settlements in Newfoundland is not in doubt - so conceivably, someone got the coin there and carried it south, that someone not being Norse) It would be fun if a Norse settlement in the US could be proven, though. We'd be happy to incorporate you as a county of good ol' Norway. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_penny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_penny
- ocschwar 10y ago
  The first Puritan settlers of Massachusetts were from Lincolnshire, and the people of that region were still called Jutes in the 1600s. So we already are an extension of Jutland, complete with morose temperaments and bad cooking.
vram22 10y ago
>Out-of-place artifacts[1] are cool. True :) Hadn't remembered this for some years, but your point above reminded me of it: There is a temple in Madurai (Tamil Nadu), or maybe another city in Tamil Nadu (which has tons of temples), where on the tower (gopuram) there are one or more carvings of a man (only the face) with a hat - like a Western hat. Had seen it as a kid when we went on a tour of South India. I remember my relatives saying that it could be that it depicted a Westerner, though the temple was made hundreds of years ago or more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopuram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopuram
- tmccrmck 10y ago
  That reminds of the legend of the horsemen statue on the island of Corvo in the Azores. Purportedly the statue looked to be dressed in a Moorish style. Besides that, there's plenty of evidence of pre-Portuguese presence in the Azores. There are theories that everyone from the Phoenicians to the Greeks to the Chinese discovered the island before Portugal did.
  - vram22 10y ago
    Interesting. I've also read in a few places that others from Europe reached the East coast of North America much before Columbus did. Vikings or others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Erikson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Erikson
viewtransform 10y ago
This one I discovered in a local history book in Utah. It is a coin from India 1830 that was found buried in Southern Utah as part of a Spanish cache. Apparently Spanish priests during that time were amassing good sums of gold from their native american converts and would bury their loot. https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=449253 https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=449253

noobermin 10y ago

I'm a physicist, and I imagine this sort of thing are like studies looking for magnetic monopoles, really out there stuff that capture the imagination of the public and non-experts, but are fringe and/or really difficult to get funding for vs. the usual, safe path.

ianai 10y ago
I doubt it's necessarily that crazy. There's a lot more to the world and human history than documented. Plus, for some reason, 'the west' tends to have an insular viewpoint. Oddball physics has fewer avenues of 'being true but unobserved'. I need sleep.
- simonh 10y ago
  We have enough provable, documented examples of very long range contact and trade that it seems highly implausible that there was no such contact that we aren't aware of. If a Christian monk can be born near Beijing in 1220, walk all the way to Europe and meet the pope then it' beggars belief that similar journeys were never done in more ancient times. After all Marco Polo wasn't the first European to go to China either, his father and uncle had been there before him. I do accept that we have to distinguish between mythology and history, but lets analyse this according to scientific principles for a moment. If you have a theory and it accurately predicts what happens, we call that science. If the Aztec believed there were bearded white people living beyond the eastern sea that would one day come and conquer them, then it actually goes and happens, then I think it’s reasonable to take the origins of that belief seriously.
  - ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
    Travelling over the medieval Silk Road though was much easier and safer than oceanic travel.

lb1lf 10y ago

One of my favourites (being Norwegian an'all) is the Maine Penny [1]. IMHO the most likely explanation is that it is either a modern-day hoax (that is, planted at the dig site) or a result of native American trading (After all, the fact that there were Norse settlements in Newfoundland is not in doubt - so conceivably, someone got the coin there and carried it south, that someone not being Norse) It would be fun if a Norse settlement in the US could be proven, though. We'd be happy to incorporate you as a county of good ol' Norway. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_penny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_penny

ocschwar 10y ago
The first Puritan settlers of Massachusetts were from Lincolnshire, and the people of that region were still called Jutes in the 1600s. So we already are an extension of Jutland, complete with morose temperaments and bad cooking.

vram22 10y ago

>Out-of-place artifacts[1] are cool. True :) Hadn't remembered this for some years, but your point above reminded me of it: There is a temple in Madurai (Tamil Nadu), or maybe another city in Tamil Nadu (which has tons of temples), where on the tower (gopuram) there are one or more carvings of a man (only the face) with a hat - like a Western hat. Had seen it as a kid when we went on a tour of South India. I remember my relatives saying that it could be that it depicted a Westerner, though the temple was made hundreds of years ago or more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopuram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopuram

tmccrmck 10y ago
That reminds of the legend of the horsemen statue on the island of Corvo in the Azores. Purportedly the statue looked to be dressed in a Moorish style. Besides that, there's plenty of evidence of pre-Portuguese presence in the Azores. There are theories that everyone from the Phoenicians to the Greeks to the Chinese discovered the island before Portugal did.
- vram22 10y ago
  Interesting. I've also read in a few places that others from Europe reached the East coast of North America much before Columbus did. Vikings or others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Erikson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Erikson

viewtransform 10y ago

This one I discovered in a local history book in Utah. It is a coin from India 1830 that was found buried in Southern Utah as part of a Spanish cache. Apparently Spanish priests during that time were amassing good sums of gold from their native american converts and would bury their loot. https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=449253 https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=449253