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When did we start calling Electron Apps, Native Apps? Is it now a marketing ploy to call your App native when it's not? If your App renders in a WebView then b

When did we start calling Electron Apps, Native Apps? Is it now a marketing ploy to call your App native when it's not? If your App renders in a WebView then by definition it's not native and shouldn't be labelled as such so it doesn't devalue Apps that use Native OS's UI components and idioms that are truly Native. If it has a mix of native and WebView controls then it's at best a Hybrid App.

kangoo1707 10y ago
If an app can be installed the same way a "native" app does, it is a native app. Users do not care about the technology behind the scene and what they are called.
- throwaway2048 10y ago
  They care when an app is a laggy mess that eats battery, cpu and memory like crazy
- Deusdies 10y ago
  So in your opinion, are Cordova apps also native apps?
- fnordsensei 10y ago
  Aren't we conflating "desktop app" with "native app" in that case? Why do users have to be exposed to the word "native" at all? Just say "desktop app".
- flukus 10y ago
  Java apps could be installed and never used to be considered native. Native means "uses the OS UI components".
- wishinghand 10y ago
  All native apps are desktop apps, but not all desktop apps are native apps.
  - a85 10y ago
    So native would not cover mobile apps?
    - dkersten 10y ago
      It depends on the host platform. On desktop, all native apps are desktop apps but not all desktop apps are native. On mobile, all native apps are mobile apps but not all mobile apps are native.
      - a85 10y ago
        This is where I believe we'd differ. Postman already had a "desktop" app in the sense that Chrome apps also existed as desktop apps and when we ask users to switch, they wouldn't. For most users, desktop apps = things that run on the desktop. https://dcrazed.com/google-chrome-desktop-apps/ https://dcrazed.com/google-chrome-desktop-apps/
        wishinghand 10y ago
        What you say you differ on doesn't seem to be incompatible with my assertion.
a85 10y ago
I am not sure why something would be inherently superior if it is using pre-built OS components. Any software can have memory leaks, buggy behavior, weird input issues etc. I'd rather look at the user experience and qualify something as better/worse after using it. Postman had issues in the beginning when we started porting things over but these were quickly solved and in fact gave us much more power over the experience.
- Veratyr 10y ago
  The point isn't entirely that "true" native apps are superior, the point is really that WebView wrappers are no more a "native" application than a standard HTML web application, because that's exactly what they are and pretending otherwise is deceptive. As for applications built with OS components being inherently better, there are a few reasons for me: - They are guaranteed to fit in with OS styling - They near-universally perform better (and I don't see how this can change, given the way browsers are forced to render things) - The underlying functionality is written in native code, which allows for optimizations that cannot be made on web applications - They don't have the insane and unnecessary bloat of a modern web browser attached.
  - elmigranto 10y ago
    > - They are guaranteed to fit in with OS styling They aren't. For example, if you move your cursor to a word in macOS, and force touch, pop up will appear with word's definition from Dictionary.app. This is not a case in "native" applications that render text differently, Sublime Text is my offender, but there must be others. So "guarantee" is too strong of a word.
    - Veratyr 10y ago
      That was in reference to the use of OS-provided components, which by definition have the same styling as the OS. Your point that native applications don't always have to use OS-provided components is taken though.
    - OD_ 10y ago
derefr 10y ago
In the case of this specific post, they seem to be using "native" to mean "has features that require access to native OS APIs, and which cannot exist purely within the HTML5 abstract machine." There's probably a better term for this. "Native-enabled", perhaps? "Unsandboxed"?
- viraptor 10y ago
  Sandbox is a completely different idea. Both native and web apps can have sandboxes (or not have them).
partycoder 10y ago
Well, many widget libraries use markup languages, Qt has QML, WPF has XAML, and could give more examples but you get the idea. Personally I prefer using Burp rather than Postman.
- scaryspooky 10y ago
  QT has direct bindings to the host platforms C code. How you express layout of a view is very, very different than how you directly use OS APIs.
  - flukus 10y ago
    For some things, but it still implements it's own widgets and I don't think it obeys the OS theme by default (at least on windows).
kartickv 10y ago
Electron apps are more native than Chrome apps. Electron apps integrate much better with macOS than do Chrome apps: - With a Chrome app, I found that pressing Cmd-Q quits Chrome, not just the Chrome app. - Electron apps have more useful menus than Chrome apps. - Electron apps like Simplenote usually work offline, while some of the Chrome apps I've used don't. ... and so on. I agree with you that it's still not 100% accurate to call them native apps, but trying to communicate shades of grey in a blog post risks confusing readers, even technical ones, who want to do whatever Postman does, not understand the finer points of Electron vs Chrome vs Cocoa apps. I'll take clear communication over communication that's confusing because it's accurate in ways I don't care about.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

kangoo1707 10y ago

If an app can be installed the same way a "native" app does, it is a native app. Users do not care about the technology behind the scene and what they are called.

throwaway2048 10y ago
They care when an app is a laggy mess that eats battery, cpu and memory like crazy
Deusdies 10y ago
So in your opinion, are Cordova apps also native apps?
fnordsensei 10y ago
Aren't we conflating "desktop app" with "native app" in that case? Why do users have to be exposed to the word "native" at all? Just say "desktop app".
flukus 10y ago
Java apps could be installed and never used to be considered native. Native means "uses the OS UI components".
wishinghand 10y ago
All native apps are desktop apps, but not all desktop apps are native apps.
- a85 10y ago
  So native would not cover mobile apps?
  - dkersten 10y ago
    It depends on the host platform. On desktop, all native apps are desktop apps but not all desktop apps are native. On mobile, all native apps are mobile apps but not all mobile apps are native.
    - a85 10y ago
      This is where I believe we'd differ. Postman already had a "desktop" app in the sense that Chrome apps also existed as desktop apps and when we ask users to switch, they wouldn't. For most users, desktop apps = things that run on the desktop. https://dcrazed.com/google-chrome-desktop-apps/ https://dcrazed.com/google-chrome-desktop-apps/
      - wishinghand 10y ago
        What you say you differ on doesn't seem to be incompatible with my assertion.

a85 10y ago

I am not sure why something would be inherently superior if it is using pre-built OS components. Any software can have memory leaks, buggy behavior, weird input issues etc. I'd rather look at the user experience and qualify something as better/worse after using it. Postman had issues in the beginning when we started porting things over but these were quickly solved and in fact gave us much more power over the experience.

Veratyr 10y ago
The point isn't entirely that "true" native apps are superior, the point is really that WebView wrappers are no more a "native" application than a standard HTML web application, because that's exactly what they are and pretending otherwise is deceptive. As for applications built with OS components being inherently better, there are a few reasons for me: - They are guaranteed to fit in with OS styling - They near-universally perform better (and I don't see how this can change, given the way browsers are forced to render things) - The underlying functionality is written in native code, which allows for optimizations that cannot be made on web applications - They don't have the insane and unnecessary bloat of a modern web browser attached.
- elmigranto 10y ago
  > - They are guaranteed to fit in with OS styling They aren't. For example, if you move your cursor to a word in macOS, and force touch, pop up will appear with word's definition from Dictionary.app. This is not a case in "native" applications that render text differently, Sublime Text is my offender, but there must be others. So "guarantee" is too strong of a word.
  - Veratyr 10y ago
    That was in reference to the use of OS-provided components, which by definition have the same styling as the OS. Your point that native applications don't always have to use OS-provided components is taken though.
  - OD_ 10y ago

derefr 10y ago

In the case of this specific post, they seem to be using "native" to mean "has features that require access to native OS APIs, and which cannot exist purely within the HTML5 abstract machine." There's probably a better term for this. "Native-enabled", perhaps? "Unsandboxed"?

viraptor 10y ago
Sandbox is a completely different idea. Both native and web apps can have sandboxes (or not have them).

partycoder 10y ago

Well, many widget libraries use markup languages, Qt has QML, WPF has XAML, and could give more examples but you get the idea. Personally I prefer using Burp rather than Postman.

scaryspooky 10y ago
QT has direct bindings to the host platforms C code. How you express layout of a view is very, very different than how you directly use OS APIs.
- flukus 10y ago
  For some things, but it still implements it's own widgets and I don't think it obeys the OS theme by default (at least on windows).

kartickv 10y ago

Electron apps are more native than Chrome apps. Electron apps integrate much better with macOS than do Chrome apps: - With a Chrome app, I found that pressing Cmd-Q quits Chrome, not just the Chrome app. - Electron apps have more useful menus than Chrome apps. - Electron apps like Simplenote usually work offline, while some of the Chrome apps I've used don't. ... and so on. I agree with you that it's still not 100% accurate to call them native apps, but trying to communicate shades of grey in a blog post risks confusing readers, even technical ones, who want to do whatever Postman does, not understand the finer points of Electron vs Chrome vs Cocoa apps. I'll take clear communication over communication that's confusing because it's accurate in ways I don't care about.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]