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Do you want to listen to the reasons, or just tell them to "go make your own if you don't like it"? You can't have it both ways. I agree that simply saying X s

by ksk 10y ago

Do you want to listen to the reasons, or just tell them to "go make your own if you don't like it"? You can't have it both ways. I agree that simply saying X sucks is not a valid argument. Howeever with CSS/HTML the flaws are too numerous and already discussed ad nauseam over the past 15 years. Everytime a new version of CSS comes out, people go and try it and find out that it sucks, whether its th broken box model or the broken float layout techniques or the constant fiddling you are forced to do to get anything working. Every web developer I've seen adopts the 'edit and refresh' trial and error model of developing which is the direct result of a bad spec. Which also explains why there isn't even a reference implementation. As far as UI layout is concerned I am fairly sure I could out-compete a web developer in terms of time taken to implement, using something like IMGUI.

pcwalton 10y ago
> Which also explains why there isn't even a reference implementation. As someone who has spent years implementing those standards, a reference implementation would not help me at all. > As far as UI layout is concerned I am fairly sure I could out-compete a web developer in terms of time taken to implement, using something like IMGUI. Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame.
- ksk 10y ago
  >As someone who has spent years implementing those standards, a reference implementation would not help me at all. I don't quite understand what you meant your comment to be indicative of. That nobody else would consider it useful? That you personally see no value in reference implementations at all? >Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame. Could you detail the UI are you thinking of where IMGUI is inefficient but HTML/CSS isn't? Not asking for a formal spec, just a general usecase.. My problem with CSS/HTML is that productivity scales inversely when using them.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >a reference implementation would not help me at all. Well, considering that the web has been for decades a landmine of subtle rendering differences based on different interpretations of the same standards, it would surely help others... Also, I'm not sure what you're saying here. That, warts and all, you love the web as a programming platform? Well, maybe you do. But then again, you don't program everyday IN it. You program a rendering engine for it in Rust, so you're safely protected from the horrors of web programming. >Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame. Aren't (or at least weren't) most computer games "immediate mode" too, and far more demanding than any web page?
- wtetzner 10y ago
  > Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame. Which isn't a problem if you're layout algorithm is fast/simple. If it's not, then it's a bigger issue.

by ksk 10y ago

pcwalton 10y ago

> Which also explains why there isn't even a reference implementation. As someone who has spent years implementing those standards, a reference implementation would not help me at all. > As far as UI layout is concerned I am fairly sure I could out-compete a web developer in terms of time taken to implement, using something like IMGUI. Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame.

ksk 10y ago
>As someone who has spent years implementing those standards, a reference implementation would not help me at all. I don't quite understand what you meant your comment to be indicative of. That nobody else would consider it useful? That you personally see no value in reference implementations at all? >Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame. Could you detail the UI are you thinking of where IMGUI is inefficient but HTML/CSS isn't? Not asking for a formal spec, just a general usecase.. My problem with CSS/HTML is that productivity scales inversely when using them.
coldtea 10y ago
>a reference implementation would not help me at all. Well, considering that the web has been for decades a landmine of subtle rendering differences based on different interpretations of the same standards, it would surely help others... Also, I'm not sure what you're saying here. That, warts and all, you love the web as a programming platform? Well, maybe you do. But then again, you don't program everyday IN it. You program a rendering engine for it in Rust, so you're safely protected from the horrors of web programming. >Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame. Aren't (or at least weren't) most computer games "immediate mode" too, and far more demanding than any web page?
wtetzner 10y ago
> Dear imgui's layout model doesn't scale at all, due to the fact that it's immediate mode. It redoes layout from scratch every frame. Which isn't a problem if you're layout algorithm is fast/simple. If it's not, then it's a bigger issue.