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Great post—and the title got a laugh out of this self-described "ancient" web developer—but interestingly, there's not much (any?) info in there about learning

Great post—and the title got a laugh out of this self-described "ancient" web developer—but interestingly, there's not much (any?) info in there about learning JavaScript/ECMAScript the language. It and the articles it links are mainly focused on the ecosystem and tooling. I held JS at arm's length for way too long, trying to use it without actually learning it. I finally grew tired of being illiterate and read "You Don't Know JavaScript" by Kyle Simpson[0] and it was eye-opening. The preface[1] really spoke to me and I suspect it will speak to many others like me. I only wish I'd read it two years ago. 0. https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS 1. https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS/blob/master/preface.md https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS/blob/master/prefa...

gm-conspiracy 10y ago
I did appreciate the tip from the original article to look at github bug comments for the latest framework and tooling documentation. I have been foolishly looking at the documentation and wiki pages. I have also enjoyed this site: http://javascriptissexy.com/ http://javascriptissexy.com/
agentultra 10y ago
I too read that series! And I learned to like ES6 from it. I've had to since JS is the de-facto language where I presently work. And I immediately recognized the functional bits that turned out, for me, to be the best parts: functors, monads, currying and the like. However the problem I've found is that as our code scales up in size and sophistication it requires greater mental effort and discipline from the team to maintain consistency and manage complexity. ES6+, for better or worse, is a kitchen sink language. The hard part is getting everyone to agree on the subset to use and enforcing standards. At first I thought this was a wonderful language for teaching FP in: it's forgiving, people can learn concepts as they go and put them into practice right away without having to go whole-hog on FP. This works for senior developers for the most part. However for junior developers, I've found, it can add to the confusion. And if I'm reading the tea-leaves right it seems like Microsoft and Facebook have been having the same issues with large Javascript projects. Why else build tools to help manage the complexity if the language already provides them? It seems like there's a good language buried in Javascript, somewhere, but the lack of a sound-type system and a plethora of historical baggage obscures it. All in all learning Javascript is worth it if only access to an ecosystem of highly-active development is valuable. It can be a pleasure to write... but my advice today would be to learn a pure FP language first and come back to Javascript if you need to.
kbenson 10y ago
> Great post—and the title got a laugh out of this self-described "ancient" web developer I'm happy it ended up being a self description. I was a little worried it was going to be a bit of directed humor that might be unintentionally offensive. Not that I'm generally thin-skinned about that, but it would have been a bit much to have an article about "you're old so you don't know how to do stuff, so let me explain it to you". I could see someone attempting that in humor, and it just coming across badly...
nawitus 10y ago
JavaScript: The Good Parts is a great book to learn the language - although I haven't checked if it has been updated for the latest standard.
flukus 10y ago
Just copy and paste random bits from stack overflow until it works. This is how 99% of javascript is coded.
- throwayedidqo 10y ago
  This is unfortunately true because the language is so fucking crazy. Twice this week: How do I check for undefined in ES5 compatible way? How do I check if I need a polyfill for cookie API? The accepted answers for both were rediculous hacks because apparently there's no good and easy way to do it

gm-conspiracy 10y ago

I did appreciate the tip from the original article to look at github bug comments for the latest framework and tooling documentation. I have been foolishly looking at the documentation and wiki pages. I have also enjoyed this site: http://javascriptissexy.com/ http://javascriptissexy.com/

agentultra 10y ago

I too read that series! And I learned to like ES6 from it. I've had to since JS is the de-facto language where I presently work. And I immediately recognized the functional bits that turned out, for me, to be the best parts: functors, monads, currying and the like. However the problem I've found is that as our code scales up in size and sophistication it requires greater mental effort and discipline from the team to maintain consistency and manage complexity. ES6+, for better or worse, is a kitchen sink language. The hard part is getting everyone to agree on the subset to use and enforcing standards. At first I thought this was a wonderful language for teaching FP in: it's forgiving, people can learn concepts as they go and put them into practice right away without having to go whole-hog on FP. This works for senior developers for the most part. However for junior developers, I've found, it can add to the confusion. And if I'm reading the tea-leaves right it seems like Microsoft and Facebook have been having the same issues with large Javascript projects. Why else build tools to help manage the complexity if the language already provides them? It seems like there's a good language buried in Javascript, somewhere, but the lack of a sound-type system and a plethora of historical baggage obscures it. All in all learning Javascript is worth it if only access to an ecosystem of highly-active development is valuable. It can be a pleasure to write... but my advice today would be to learn a pure FP language first and come back to Javascript if you need to.

kbenson 10y ago

> Great post—and the title got a laugh out of this self-described "ancient" web developer I'm happy it ended up being a self description. I was a little worried it was going to be a bit of directed humor that might be unintentionally offensive. Not that I'm generally thin-skinned about that, but it would have been a bit much to have an article about "you're old so you don't know how to do stuff, so let me explain it to you". I could see someone attempting that in humor, and it just coming across badly...

nawitus 10y ago

JavaScript: The Good Parts is a great book to learn the language - although I haven't checked if it has been updated for the latest standard.

flukus 10y ago

Just copy and paste random bits from stack overflow until it works. This is how 99% of javascript is coded.

throwayedidqo 10y ago
This is unfortunately true because the language is so fucking crazy. Twice this week: How do I check for undefined in ES5 compatible way? How do I check if I need a polyfill for cookie API? The accepted answers for both were rediculous hacks because apparently there's no good and easy way to do it