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Why should I care a spy agency has spy tools? (Which is all these leaks show.) I mean, the CIA could always have broken in to my house undetected and set up ti

Why should I care a spy agency has spy tools? (Which is all these leaks show.) I mean, the CIA could always have broken in to my house undetected and set up tiny microphones -- why should I worry now that they use computers as part of that, but not then when it was bugs transmitting radio? The reason people don't care now is why they didn't care then: so what? Do you really believe the CIA gives a shit about what you have to say?

sanityUnbounded 10y ago
The logistics of breaking into a house undetected to set up tiny microphones suggests a lot of manpower, and to do that to each house in the United States would be near impossible without raising suspicion. The reason to care now is because it likely wasn't happening then. Also, whether the CIA "gives a shit" is irrelevant. It is still happening regardless, and you cannot know for certain what the CIA does and does not "give a shit" about. If you have documents showing what this data is being used for, do the world a service and release them.
belorn 10y ago
There is this old joke that one should think like ones neighbor: its not me they want, its the neighbor. Joke a side, so long you are not political active, don't run a company, are not a doctor, a lawyer, or a priest, vote for the right political party, have friends with any of the above, or have children or spouse that are friends with any of the above, then it is likely that they don't care what you say. Just make sure you got a high enough citizen score.
1001101 10y ago
> Do you really believe the CIA gives a shit about what you have to say? As we learned from the Snowden leaks, surveillance is being conducted on a massive scale under the purview of a secret court that rubber stamps whatever comes across its desk, and not in a targeted manner as in your bug argument. I still have a right and desire for privacy, which is not a function of whether or not the CIA, or anyone, cares what I say or do. This level of clairvoyance is too much power for any one person or group to have, and is of what Orwell and others have rightly warned us.
- SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
  I'm sorry to be blunt, but you seem uninformed. All of the information we saw from the Snowden leaks was passive interception of lines they had a legitimate need to tap. What they did, which I dont agree with, was intercept all the data and analyze it to deduce likely targets, rather than explicitly targeting data to capture. That was the entirety of the Snowden leaks: they're overly broad in their selection criteria because they wanted to run targeting filters instead of having to pick targets before intercept. That's a whole different sport from pretending they tap every computer in the world with spy tools. Legally, ethically, and practically. So I think you (and sibling comments) are simply uninformed, delusional, and making up wild, unreasonable accusations based on emotion, not rational thought.
  - 3131s 10y ago
    > That was the entirety of the Snowden leaks Is that so? So the NSA did not secretly collect all data from the unencrypted fiber between Google and Yahoo's data centers? And the NSA never paid RSA Security 10 million dollars to back Dual_EC_DRBG as part of the broader program Bullrun intended to subvert and weaken cryptographic protocols that underlie our national security and critical online infrastructure? You are aware that the Snowden documents discuss intelligence agencies outside the US as well, and detail our coordination with these agencies? What about spying on allied foreign world leaders? Gag orders placed on the largest companies on earth? Parallel construction? I am almost skeptical that you are intentionally understating the significance of what the Snowden documents revealed.
    - calimac 10y ago
      Ditto ! Amen. Also the local feds were pulling facial data from state drivers license databases and social media databases against the implicit direction of congressional oversight. When congressional oversight committee asked the BF1 they said no we don't maintain social data... the congressman clarified, and they said true, we query it from the other databases. Big difference right.... wrong. they are defying implicit instructions from congressional oversight, lying to congress and refusing to report. All this a the bureaucracy's genetic thirst for omnipotent power. We are seeing the technological evolution of our 67 year old surveillance state. This has to stop. We are the sheep dogs. Everyone on hacker news has the intelligence to educate and lead the people in their network of friends and family. Ensure that congress does not pass 702 authorization.
calimac 10y ago
People who say "So what", "I have nothing to hide" are tools of mediocrity and products of the US Education system that has trained lemmings since the turn of the 20th century. They have no concept of the underlying purpose and structure of the constitution and amendments. The data in our "phones", electronic devices, which carry more information than our mailbox ever could have not been afforded the 4th amendment protection the US mail has. Why? First they call us crazy then they say it does not matter. What the heck is wrong with people. Prisoners have their mail inspected before delivery not US Citizens. BTW, 52 hard drives were given to the 3letter a few years back with millions of US citizen's records on it from a leak of dr@gn3t pr0gr@m. Nothing was ever done. It was finally picked up in the news this week. they have been keeping a massive database on U.S. citizens who were not and are not targets of investigation.

sanityUnbounded 10y ago

The logistics of breaking into a house undetected to set up tiny microphones suggests a lot of manpower, and to do that to each house in the United States would be near impossible without raising suspicion. The reason to care now is because it likely wasn't happening then. Also, whether the CIA "gives a shit" is irrelevant. It is still happening regardless, and you cannot know for certain what the CIA does and does not "give a shit" about. If you have documents showing what this data is being used for, do the world a service and release them.

belorn 10y ago

There is this old joke that one should think like ones neighbor: its not me they want, its the neighbor. Joke a side, so long you are not political active, don't run a company, are not a doctor, a lawyer, or a priest, vote for the right political party, have friends with any of the above, or have children or spouse that are friends with any of the above, then it is likely that they don't care what you say. Just make sure you got a high enough citizen score.

1001101 10y ago

> Do you really believe the CIA gives a shit about what you have to say? As we learned from the Snowden leaks, surveillance is being conducted on a massive scale under the purview of a secret court that rubber stamps whatever comes across its desk, and not in a targeted manner as in your bug argument. I still have a right and desire for privacy, which is not a function of whether or not the CIA, or anyone, cares what I say or do. This level of clairvoyance is too much power for any one person or group to have, and is of what Orwell and others have rightly warned us.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
I'm sorry to be blunt, but you seem uninformed. All of the information we saw from the Snowden leaks was passive interception of lines they had a legitimate need to tap. What they did, which I dont agree with, was intercept all the data and analyze it to deduce likely targets, rather than explicitly targeting data to capture. That was the entirety of the Snowden leaks: they're overly broad in their selection criteria because they wanted to run targeting filters instead of having to pick targets before intercept. That's a whole different sport from pretending they tap every computer in the world with spy tools. Legally, ethically, and practically. So I think you (and sibling comments) are simply uninformed, delusional, and making up wild, unreasonable accusations based on emotion, not rational thought.
- 3131s 10y ago
  > That was the entirety of the Snowden leaks Is that so? So the NSA did not secretly collect all data from the unencrypted fiber between Google and Yahoo's data centers? And the NSA never paid RSA Security 10 million dollars to back Dual_EC_DRBG as part of the broader program Bullrun intended to subvert and weaken cryptographic protocols that underlie our national security and critical online infrastructure? You are aware that the Snowden documents discuss intelligence agencies outside the US as well, and detail our coordination with these agencies? What about spying on allied foreign world leaders? Gag orders placed on the largest companies on earth? Parallel construction? I am almost skeptical that you are intentionally understating the significance of what the Snowden documents revealed.
  - calimac 10y ago
    Ditto ! Amen. Also the local feds were pulling facial data from state drivers license databases and social media databases against the implicit direction of congressional oversight. When congressional oversight committee asked the BF1 they said no we don't maintain social data... the congressman clarified, and they said true, we query it from the other databases. Big difference right.... wrong. they are defying implicit instructions from congressional oversight, lying to congress and refusing to report. All this a the bureaucracy's genetic thirst for omnipotent power. We are seeing the technological evolution of our 67 year old surveillance state. This has to stop. We are the sheep dogs. Everyone on hacker news has the intelligence to educate and lead the people in their network of friends and family. Ensure that congress does not pass 702 authorization.

calimac 10y ago

People who say "So what", "I have nothing to hide" are tools of mediocrity and products of the US Education system that has trained lemmings since the turn of the 20th century. They have no concept of the underlying purpose and structure of the constitution and amendments. The data in our "phones", electronic devices, which carry more information than our mailbox ever could have not been afforded the 4th amendment protection the US mail has. Why? First they call us crazy then they say it does not matter. What the heck is wrong with people. Prisoners have their mail inspected before delivery not US Citizens. BTW, 52 hard drives were given to the 3letter a few years back with millions of US citizen's records on it from a leak of dr@gn3t pr0gr@m. Nothing was ever done. It was finally picked up in the news this week. they have been keeping a massive database on U.S. citizens who were not and are not targets of investigation.