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In the eyes of theists it is the union of two humans in the eyes of God. I think in 2017 it's time we start calling this fairy-tale bullshit out instead of stat

by feld 10y ago

In the eyes of theists it is the union of two humans in the eyes of God. I think in 2017 it's time we start calling this fairy-tale bullshit out instead of stating it as fact.

ezequiel-garzon 10y ago
I don't think being a theist means you believe in religious ceremonies necessarily. Also, the comment you replied to made pretty clear that marriage is many things to different people. In any event, in 2017 and 5000 you'll be able to spend your life arguing what a fact is. I'm an atheist, but I'm totally OK with that comment. People should relax across the theological board...
- roflc0ptic 10y ago
  Yeah! The comment is taking an anthropological perspective - marriage is a complex institution with huge differences between cultures, and a simplistic description "evolutionarily/economically beneficial strategy for pooling of resources for child rearing" lacks a lot of explanatory power. What about gay people? etc
bobbington 10y ago
is this comment appropriate for hacker news? Seems too debatable to me. Whether God exists or not is a contentious subject. but still 89% of Americans think God exists according to a Gallup poll. Many highly intelligent people believe in God and his view on marriage. It is not intellectually honest to say that Gods existence, and thus religious views on marriage is a foregone conclusion when 1) so many highly intelligent people disagree and 2) its impossible to completely disprove the existence of God (Richard Dawkins acknowledges this) http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americans-believe-god.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americans-believe-god.aspx
metaphorm 10y ago
this is a level of vitriol and hostility that gets people like Trump elected. I don't believe in the Judaeo-Christian God either, but I don't feel compelled to make nasty remarks about it in public. Other people have different beliefs than you. Judge them on their behavior, not their beliefs.
- wfo 10y ago
  You can tell someone they are being a jerk without blaming Trump on them. Now it seems like the auto response to someone saying something distasteful and liberal is to say "you, saying stuff like this that I don't like, that's why Trump got elected" and intended or not it's an implicit threat -- don't say things I don't like or else we'll get another Trump. People being rude on the Internet is NOT why Trump won the election and believing so, and letting people hold you and what you say hostage with the threat "I might vote for Trump again if you e.g. defend feminism too rigorously and loudly, watch it liberal" isn't sustainable or acceptable. But you're right the comment you're referring to was very rude and unacceptable, my response is intended towards this sort of response /in general/.
  - metaphorm 10y ago
    I was using hyperbole to make a point. The point is that backlash is a real thing, and one of the causes of backlash (particularly right-wing backlash) is feeling like you are hated for your beliefs.
    - cr0sh 10y ago
      The thing is, @feld never said anything hateful about @roflc0ptic or anyone else. There's a difference between between not respecting a person's beliefs, and not respecting a person because of their beliefs. It is possible to engage in the former while not engaging in the latter. This breaks down, though, when people somehow equate what they believe with who they are, and thus if you attack their beliefs in any manner, somehow you are now attacking them. This isn't confined to any particular belief system or ideology (you see it in liberals as well). One should, however, be on guard to not let this kind of conflation happen to themselves, because it does nothing to further discussion or reflection upon the ideas/beliefs, and their likely veracity or usefulness to themselves and/or society at large. Unfortunately, many people lack this kind of ability to self-reflect and understand that they are not being attacked or derided, but rather their ideas and beliefs are. There are very few cases in which an individual should not be respected because of their beliefs; these cases are typically when society has deemed such ideas/beliefs to be harmful or dangerous to society or others, yet they continue to hold onto those ideas/beliefs and/or promote them as well. Otherwise, except for those cases, one should feel free to criticize, attack, or disrespect beliefs apart from the individual holding them, and that person should also understand that they are not the target of such - and should self-reflect upon why their beliefs are being viewed this way. Of course - this can lead to absurdities - for instance, if all of a society deemed that hitting oneself in the head with a hammer was the way to cure a headache, despite objective evidence - to go against this idea while being in the minority can and would be extremely maddening and depressing. One can thus understand why being an atheist in a country that is mostly religious, has almost no representation within their country's government, while being told that they are part of the problems of that country, that they are the immoral ones (despite what statistics really show about crime and incarceration demographically), and that the religious ones (and mainly of a particular religion) are the ones being suppressed (again, never mind the real objective facts of the matter) - can be an almost Kafka-esque experience...

by feld 10y ago

In the eyes of theists it is the union of two humans in the eyes of God. I think in 2017 it's time we start calling this fairy-tale bullshit out instead of stating it as fact.

ezequiel-garzon 10y ago

I don't think being a theist means you believe in religious ceremonies necessarily. Also, the comment you replied to made pretty clear that marriage is many things to different people. In any event, in 2017 and 5000 you'll be able to spend your life arguing what a fact is. I'm an atheist, but I'm totally OK with that comment. People should relax across the theological board...

roflc0ptic 10y ago
Yeah! The comment is taking an anthropological perspective - marriage is a complex institution with huge differences between cultures, and a simplistic description "evolutionarily/economically beneficial strategy for pooling of resources for child rearing" lacks a lot of explanatory power. What about gay people? etc

bobbington 10y ago

is this comment appropriate for hacker news? Seems too debatable to me. Whether God exists or not is a contentious subject. but still 89% of Americans think God exists according to a Gallup poll. Many highly intelligent people believe in God and his view on marriage. It is not intellectually honest to say that Gods existence, and thus religious views on marriage is a foregone conclusion when 1) so many highly intelligent people disagree and 2) its impossible to completely disprove the existence of God (Richard Dawkins acknowledges this) http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americans-believe-god.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americans-believe-god.aspx

metaphorm 10y ago

this is a level of vitriol and hostility that gets people like Trump elected. I don't believe in the Judaeo-Christian God either, but I don't feel compelled to make nasty remarks about it in public. Other people have different beliefs than you. Judge them on their behavior, not their beliefs.

wfo 10y ago
You can tell someone they are being a jerk without blaming Trump on them. Now it seems like the auto response to someone saying something distasteful and liberal is to say "you, saying stuff like this that I don't like, that's why Trump got elected" and intended or not it's an implicit threat -- don't say things I don't like or else we'll get another Trump. People being rude on the Internet is NOT why Trump won the election and believing so, and letting people hold you and what you say hostage with the threat "I might vote for Trump again if you e.g. defend feminism too rigorously and loudly, watch it liberal" isn't sustainable or acceptable. But you're right the comment you're referring to was very rude and unacceptable, my response is intended towards this sort of response /in general/.
- metaphorm 10y ago
  I was using hyperbole to make a point. The point is that backlash is a real thing, and one of the causes of backlash (particularly right-wing backlash) is feeling like you are hated for your beliefs.
  - cr0sh 10y ago
    The thing is, @feld never said anything hateful about @roflc0ptic or anyone else. There's a difference between between not respecting a person's beliefs, and not respecting a person because of their beliefs. It is possible to engage in the former while not engaging in the latter. This breaks down, though, when people somehow equate what they believe with who they are, and thus if you attack their beliefs in any manner, somehow you are now attacking them. This isn't confined to any particular belief system or ideology (you see it in liberals as well). One should, however, be on guard to not let this kind of conflation happen to themselves, because it does nothing to further discussion or reflection upon the ideas/beliefs, and their likely veracity or usefulness to themselves and/or society at large. Unfortunately, many people lack this kind of ability to self-reflect and understand that they are not being attacked or derided, but rather their ideas and beliefs are. There are very few cases in which an individual should not be respected because of their beliefs; these cases are typically when society has deemed such ideas/beliefs to be harmful or dangerous to society or others, yet they continue to hold onto those ideas/beliefs and/or promote them as well. Otherwise, except for those cases, one should feel free to criticize, attack, or disrespect beliefs apart from the individual holding them, and that person should also understand that they are not the target of such - and should self-reflect upon why their beliefs are being viewed this way. Of course - this can lead to absurdities - for instance, if all of a society deemed that hitting oneself in the head with a hammer was the way to cure a headache, despite objective evidence - to go against this idea while being in the minority can and would be extremely maddening and depressing. One can thus understand why being an atheist in a country that is mostly religious, has almost no representation within their country's government, while being told that they are part of the problems of that country, that they are the immoral ones (despite what statistics really show about crime and incarceration demographically), and that the religious ones (and mainly of a particular religion) are the ones being suppressed (again, never mind the real objective facts of the matter) - can be an almost Kafka-esque experience...