4 ms·

Why the creator of Dwarf Fortress is really excited about boats

67 points by rhlala 10y ago

pavel_lishin 10y ago
I never really paid attention to individual dwarves when playing, so I had no idea they had so many personality traits: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Personality_trait http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Personality_tr... I wonder if someone's written an online quiz to give you a code to insert at the bottom of your emails, like those old hacker code one-liners people used to put into their sigs. (Can't for the life of me remember what they're called now, and searching for "code email signature" is about as useful as you'd expect.)
- zrth 10y ago
  Do you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_another_Perl_hacker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_another_Perl_hacker ?
- mmastrac 10y ago
  You're thinking of "Geek Code": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Code
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    That's the one!
    - southbridge 10y ago
      Oh... When I saw that in passing I always thought that it was short hand for the psychology discipline - you learn something everyday.
Rzor 10y ago
A bit off topic, but regarding DF: If I wanted to make a much more simpler game where some "factions" would iterate basic geopolitics among themselves what kind of resource should I be looking for if I was aiming at basic consitency? I mean probably some AI book, but other than that or maybe exactly that, there is some blog or article that would exemplify the basics? Perhaps a paper? DF is full of simulations, super complex, but I wonder what is the simplest implementation to get surprised by the "emergence" of the game itself and not pre-established design.
- mentalpiracy 10y ago
  There is a DF-styled game called RimWorld currently in development. The creator is fairly active on the game's subreddit and has blogged frequently about development. Not an exact target to what you're seeking, but hopefully it'll be useful to you.
- detaro 10y ago
  given the complexity even quite simple cellular models can show (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa-Tor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa-Tor for something a bit more "realistic" than the classics like Game of Life), something like that could be a starting point: generate a field with cells with neighbors, define some basic properties per cell, have a set of rules/policies to execute under certain circumstances.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- intended 10y ago
  You don't need AI. The starting simulations and agents don't need to be that complex. You make a toy first, and then see if it's of use. (I think Europa universalis and other games from that house may suit you?) Matter of fact, if you have time, use the bay12 Way. Write a story of what you'd like to see. Then break it down into interactions, atomic items, compound items, and then go from there. Do note, that DF allows for hugely complex interactions and emergence partly because it has the advantage of a millions year of development time, unburdened by having to conform to market or business expectations. So this allows for moderately deep systems to interact with shallow systems and yet more systems which are very deep. The sheer number of systems results in all sorts of emergent behavior, without having to resort to depth of simulation. So for example, you don't need a z axis when you start out. You may well want geography though, since that determines ecology and weather. These inform resources, nutrition, growth, abundance and derive from there to economy. Assuming you don't simulate evolution, and hard code races/civs - you have the basics to define conflict. But unless you write a story down, it results in an antiseptic sim. A story or text helps you identify quirks of your style, which you want to see reflected in your sim (you may want people to always have a predilection for ponies, or prefer cats over dogs. You may hardcore pacifism as a civ trait which leads to other results ) This keeps some sort of emotional and narrative hook, which makes the simulation worth engaging with.
ThrustVectoring 10y ago
I'd be super happy if Dwarf Fortress managed to make canal locks navigable by the AI.

67 points by rhlala 10y ago

I never really paid attention to individual dwarves when playing, so I had no idea they had so many personality traits: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Personality_trait http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Personality_tr... I wonder if someone's written an online quiz to give you a code to insert at the bottom of your emails, like those old hacker code one-liners people used to put into their sigs. (Can't for the life of me remember what they're called now, and searching for "code email signature" is about as useful as you'd expect.)

zrth 10y ago
Do you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_another_Perl_hacker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_another_Perl_hacker ?
mmastrac 10y ago
You're thinking of "Geek Code": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_Code
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  That's the one!
  - southbridge 10y ago
    Oh... When I saw that in passing I always thought that it was short hand for the psychology discipline - you learn something everyday.

Rzor 10y ago

A bit off topic, but regarding DF: If I wanted to make a much more simpler game where some "factions" would iterate basic geopolitics among themselves what kind of resource should I be looking for if I was aiming at basic consitency? I mean probably some AI book, but other than that or maybe exactly that, there is some blog or article that would exemplify the basics? Perhaps a paper? DF is full of simulations, super complex, but I wonder what is the simplest implementation to get surprised by the "emergence" of the game itself and not pre-established design.

mentalpiracy 10y ago
There is a DF-styled game called RimWorld currently in development. The creator is fairly active on the game's subreddit and has blogged frequently about development. Not an exact target to what you're seeking, but hopefully it'll be useful to you.
detaro 10y ago
given the complexity even quite simple cellular models can show (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa-Tor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa-Tor for something a bit more "realistic" than the classics like Game of Life), something like that could be a starting point: generate a field with cells with neighbors, define some basic properties per cell, have a set of rules/policies to execute under certain circumstances.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
intended 10y ago
You don't need AI. The starting simulations and agents don't need to be that complex. You make a toy first, and then see if it's of use. (I think Europa universalis and other games from that house may suit you?) Matter of fact, if you have time, use the bay12 Way. Write a story of what you'd like to see. Then break it down into interactions, atomic items, compound items, and then go from there. Do note, that DF allows for hugely complex interactions and emergence partly because it has the advantage of a millions year of development time, unburdened by having to conform to market or business expectations. So this allows for moderately deep systems to interact with shallow systems and yet more systems which are very deep. The sheer number of systems results in all sorts of emergent behavior, without having to resort to depth of simulation. So for example, you don't need a z axis when you start out. You may well want geography though, since that determines ecology and weather. These inform resources, nutrition, growth, abundance and derive from there to economy. Assuming you don't simulate evolution, and hard code races/civs - you have the basics to define conflict. But unless you write a story down, it results in an antiseptic sim. A story or text helps you identify quirks of your style, which you want to see reflected in your sim (you may want people to always have a predilection for ponies, or prefer cats over dogs. You may hardcore pacifism as a civ trait which leads to other results ) This keeps some sort of emotional and narrative hook, which makes the simulation worth engaging with.

ThrustVectoring 10y ago

I'd be super happy if Dwarf Fortress managed to make canal locks navigable by the AI.