4 ms·

> Especially for information technology, I don't understand the rationale why it has to be concentrated at certain places. Startups are built on young talent.

by xienze 10y ago

> Especially for information technology, I don't understand the rationale why it has to be concentrated at certain places. Startups are built on young talent. Young people are obsessed with living in "the big city" and to hear them tell it, living in a suburb and driving a car is about the worst thing imaginable. So if you want young talent, you better set up shop in SF.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
That's a bit silly to say, considering SF and SV are about as suburbanized as can be. If you wanted "the big city", you'd go to New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, or some other place with actual urban density.
- xienze 10y ago
  SV is very suburban, yes, but SF is densely-populated. "Big city" in this case doesn't necessarily imply that the city proper is 10M+ in population. And the lengths to which this insanity will go is that (e.g.) Google workers will live in SF and commute into SV. Talk about turning the "live in the suburbs, work in the city" paradigm on its head!
  - ghaff 10y ago
    I also think it's something of a SV/SF anomaly. I've lived and worked mostly west of Boston/Cambridge (which until quite recently is where basically all the tech was located) for a very long time and I've known relatively few people who commuted out from the the city.
coldpie 10y ago
> and to hear them tell it, living in a suburb and driving a car is about the worst thing imaginable Motor vehicle accidents are the largest cause of death for people in the US under the age of 24 so it is, arguably, the worst thing imaginable ;) https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leadingcauses.html https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leadingcauses.html
- pantalaimon 10y ago
  Also true for the environment, both ecologically and culturally.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
humanrebar 10y ago
Why young talent? Isn't that just ageism?
- QuantumGravy 10y ago
  Yes, it's ageism, and some among us in our profession have decided it's justified.
- m0llusk 10y ago
  Building a company that excludes young talent would not be ageism?
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    Who said that? That would also be ageism.
lordCarbonFiber 10y ago
As a young person that grew up in the suburbs and deeply influenced by the "automobile life"; can confirm you'd have to quadruple my salary before I even considered moving back to the suburbs and sitting through a driving commute. The false American dream of the oversized house, piles of kids, and picket fence just isn't appealing anymore to a growing population of young people. Life is too short to spend your prime someplace boring.
- amyjess 10y ago
  As a young-ish person (technically a Millennial, born in 1984) who also grew up in the suburbs, you literally couldn't pay me enough to leave the suburbs. I don't care if you're offering me seven figures; I won't live in the city. I detest noise, grime, and crowds. I like having lots and lots of space all to myself. I worked in the city once; I got sick to death of hobos on the streets shouting at me and demanding I give them money (and then having to listen to them calling me a liar when I say I don't carry cash, which is 100% true), and I got sick to death of working in a tall building where the elevators would break down all the time. Working in the city also had me constantly on edge and worrying that I was going to get gang-raped, and I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore. It's not just me, either. Most of the people I went to college with and still keep in touch with now have houses in the suburbs, and those who don't have houses per se live in two-story suburban apartment complexes. I only know one guy who lives in a more urbanized area (and even then, he's in a mixed-use master-planned development in a suburb), and that's only because he's legally blind and can't drive. A good way to make him angry is to say "you're so lucky you don't have to deal with the hassle of driving"; he will remind people at the top of his lungs that he would love to drive everywhere if he had fully-functional retinas. My friends and I are the kind of people who make fun of hipsters and mock people who are pro-homeopathy, anti-vaccine, anti-GMO, anti-gluten, vegan, Bernie bros, etc. Trust me when I say that an urban lifestyle isn't for us. I think there are a lot more culturally conservative young people than you think. Not conservative in the political sense ("liberal but not leftist" and "Clinton Democrats" apply to me and most of my friends), but conservative in the sense that they want to live a traditional lifestyle.
  - 10y ago

by xienze 10y ago

eli_gottlieb 10y ago

That's a bit silly to say, considering SF and SV are about as suburbanized as can be. If you wanted "the big city", you'd go to New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, or some other place with actual urban density.

xienze 10y ago
SV is very suburban, yes, but SF is densely-populated. "Big city" in this case doesn't necessarily imply that the city proper is 10M+ in population. And the lengths to which this insanity will go is that (e.g.) Google workers will live in SF and commute into SV. Talk about turning the "live in the suburbs, work in the city" paradigm on its head!
- ghaff 10y ago
  I also think it's something of a SV/SF anomaly. I've lived and worked mostly west of Boston/Cambridge (which until quite recently is where basically all the tech was located) for a very long time and I've known relatively few people who commuted out from the the city.

coldpie 10y ago

> and to hear them tell it, living in a suburb and driving a car is about the worst thing imaginable Motor vehicle accidents are the largest cause of death for people in the US under the age of 24 so it is, arguably, the worst thing imaginable ;) https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leadingcauses.html https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/leadingcauses.html

pantalaimon 10y ago
Also true for the environment, both ecologically and culturally.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

humanrebar 10y ago

Why young talent? Isn't that just ageism?

QuantumGravy 10y ago
Yes, it's ageism, and some among us in our profession have decided it's justified.
m0llusk 10y ago
Building a company that excludes young talent would not be ageism?
- humanrebar 10y ago
  Who said that? That would also be ageism.

lordCarbonFiber 10y ago

As a young person that grew up in the suburbs and deeply influenced by the "automobile life"; can confirm you'd have to quadruple my salary before I even considered moving back to the suburbs and sitting through a driving commute. The false American dream of the oversized house, piles of kids, and picket fence just isn't appealing anymore to a growing population of young people. Life is too short to spend your prime someplace boring.

amyjess 10y ago
As a young-ish person (technically a Millennial, born in 1984) who also grew up in the suburbs, you literally couldn't pay me enough to leave the suburbs. I don't care if you're offering me seven figures; I won't live in the city. I detest noise, grime, and crowds. I like having lots and lots of space all to myself. I worked in the city once; I got sick to death of hobos on the streets shouting at me and demanding I give them money (and then having to listen to them calling me a liar when I say I don't carry cash, which is 100% true), and I got sick to death of working in a tall building where the elevators would break down all the time. Working in the city also had me constantly on edge and worrying that I was going to get gang-raped, and I'm glad I don't have to deal with that anymore. It's not just me, either. Most of the people I went to college with and still keep in touch with now have houses in the suburbs, and those who don't have houses per se live in two-story suburban apartment complexes. I only know one guy who lives in a more urbanized area (and even then, he's in a mixed-use master-planned development in a suburb), and that's only because he's legally blind and can't drive. A good way to make him angry is to say "you're so lucky you don't have to deal with the hassle of driving"; he will remind people at the top of his lungs that he would love to drive everywhere if he had fully-functional retinas. My friends and I are the kind of people who make fun of hipsters and mock people who are pro-homeopathy, anti-vaccine, anti-GMO, anti-gluten, vegan, Bernie bros, etc. Trust me when I say that an urban lifestyle isn't for us. I think there are a lot more culturally conservative young people than you think. Not conservative in the political sense ("liberal but not leftist" and "Clinton Democrats" apply to me and most of my friends), but conservative in the sense that they want to live a traditional lifestyle.
- 10y ago