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Most terrorist acts in the U.S. are committed by white people, and the people pushing to make their religion the basis of law are also Christians, not Muslims.

Most terrorist acts in the U.S. are committed by white people, and the people pushing to make their religion the basis of law are also Christians, not Muslims. Your statements have no basis in facts or data, which leads me to suspect plain old racism.

67726e 10y ago
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- jacquesm 10y ago
  > How is Europe's open door policy working? Pretty good, all things considered. > I'd prefer they integrate, speak the language, and stop blowing shit up. Guess what: For 99.999% of them this already holds true. > Apparently that's too much to ask. No it isn't, and the refugees actually agree with you. > I'd also prefer they stop preaching support for fucking Sharia law, but that's too much to ask. Oh, the old Sharia law saw. Again, in no Western country is there a realistic chance of Sharia law being applied to you or me. But if two parties consent to having a non-official arbitration done then they are welcome to do so. Similar things happen in the Vatican and in the Jewish community and nobody ever thought that that was a problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Vatican_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Vatican_City (Note that the Vatican holds a very special position in spite of being inside the borders of Italy). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_din > You've got some real cognitive dissonance. Do you see me as supporting Sharia law? As for being against integration, teaching immigrants the local language or being pro 'blowing shit up': I'm against Sharia law as much as I'm against religion: but I recognize the law of the land here that says that people are allowed to do this since they are consenting adults, even if the net effects of both are quite possibly negatives. Just like I can't stop you from eating bad food or from smoking. Those are freedoms we give to everybody in order to not limit ourselves. Reduce those freedoms for others and we too will end up with reduced freedoms. I'm hardline against genital mutilation, whether done by Islam adherents or Jews is not relevant to me. That is the sort of invasion of bodily integrity that I really strongly disagree with and that no person should have the right to do to another, even when we're talking about parents and children. I'm 'pro' integration, but I also recognize that not everybody integrates equally well. And some simply don't care. Most notably: American, British and Japanese friends who after having been here decades still don't speak the language because they simply do not need to. Contrast with most Turkish and Moroccan immigrants who speak the language just fine. Other than that their 'integration' is their affair, not mine and the embarrassing integration courses that the government forces on refugees here are more hinder than help (and cost a fortune). Who gives a damn where our (immigrant) queen comes from? As for blowing shit up: the people that have the most to lose from assholes blowing shit up (or, you know, white guys running people through with swords) are the refugees and the immigrants. Because they (and their children) are going to be the ones to pay the price, not the idiots that blow themselves up.
senior_james 10y ago
Islam is not a race. Also, an act of terror by someone that just happens to be Christian is completely different than an act by someone doing it in the name of a religion, like Islam. "plain old racism" It's not racist to recognize patterns. You can't even draw Muhammad without getting death threats or even killed. The same can't be said about Jesus. The majority of the major terror attacks in the last 10 years have been done in the name of Islam. I also find it odd that the progressives in the US are all for women and gay rights. Yet, as soon as you have a Muslim majority, these are the first to go. People like you are the reason it will just continue to happen. A barbaric religion and culture allowed to destroy our way of life because you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I suspect something similar happened to the Roman empire.
- kaitai 10y ago
  Killing abortion providers or bombing a clinic explicitly in the name of some version of Christianity are examples of Christian terrorism, though, which have happened in the US recently. These are not acts that are incidental to the religious beliefs of the individuals perpetrating them. It's not anti-Christian to recognize patterns. You can't be a clinic that provides reproductive health services (even without abortions!) without getting threats, and you definitely can't provide abortions without getting death threats or even getting killed. If you look at mass killings in the US, the majority of major attacks in the US have been done by men who are white and nominally Christian, falling into the broad categories of "Christianity-motivated" or "bitter at life, esp. the military or women". Check out a list of US shootings at http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-m... for instance. Full disclosure: I'm some version of Christian too, but I feel quite threatened by other Christians who want to enforce their versions of morality upon me by law. I do not feel threatened by Sharia. When I got some testing done on my fetus at 20 weeks and was faced with a possible, but thankfully irrelevant, choice of being forced to carry a terminally ill or dead kid to term or not, it wasn't Muslims forcing me to make that choice.
  - senior_james 10y ago
    "Killing abortion providers or bombing a clinic explicitly in the name of some version of Christianity are examples of Christian terrorism" I can think of this happening once or twice in the last 5 years. The volume of Muslim attacks is much higher. Both are wrong. "You can't be a clinic that provides reproductive health services (even without abortions!) without getting threats, and you definitely can't provide abortions without getting death threats or even getting killed." Abortion is legal in the United states and murders of clinic workers aren't really common. Try being a vocal Trump supporter in the US. You will get death threats too. However, people aren't actually carrying it out. "bitter at life, esp. the military or women" As I said, statistically, the United states has a large percentage of Christians (and people that are white), which means a large percentage of any murders are going to be white and Christian. However, they were not screaming "Jesus is great" during the murders nor trying to create a Christian state where anyone practicing another religion us murdered. "I do not feel threatened by Sharia." You don't feel threatened because you don't have to live under the rule of it. If we were under Sharia law, I don't think we would even be having this conversation. The people against it are trying to save everyone else from a terrible life. "it wasn't Muslims forcing me to make that choice." I think you need to learn more about Islam. Abortion is completely illegal in all Muslim countries and if you actually talk to someone that is not even that much of a fundamentalist, they are against abortion. Regardless of the religion, I don't want to be ruled by a mythical person that lived 2000 years ago with little regard to science.
viggity 10y ago
Gee, it is almost like white people make up a huge part of the population. Apply a little Bayes Theorem and visit back when you've run the numbers. Also, fwiw, Islam is not a race, hence you can't be racist for criticizing it. It is an ideological system. In that way it is no different than Democracy, Communism, Buddhism, Capitalism, Mormonism, Anarchism, etc, etc. Race doesn't define any of those ideologies either. In a free society we must be allowed to criticize ideas. I'm allowed to criticize Islamism and its practices and beliefs. I'm also allowed to criticize Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, et al. However only one of these ideologies regularly/commonly threatens to kill (and actually will kill) people who leave the faith. Only one of these ideologies has a large constituency who condones the intentional targeting of innocent civilians. It isn't a majority, but it isn't a fringe 1% either. Pew Research Surveys show the number to be 20-30% of these practitioners worldwide. (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...)
- literallycancer 10y ago
  Yeah, look at them evil Muslims.[1] Fundamentalists, every single one, right? Islam has issues, of course, just like any other ideology. Too bad the Wahhabis are largely successful in exporting their flavor of Islam.. but I guess that's what happens when you prop up oppressive regimes in the name of stability (and preferential access to natural resources). [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZIqdrFeFBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZIqdrFeFBk
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    The thing that really rams this home for me is pictures of Teheran before the revolution: http://www.vintag.es/2014/09/pictures-of-tehran-iran-ca-1960s-1970s.html http://www.vintag.es/2014/09/pictures-of-tehran-iran-ca-1960... The problem with all this is if it achieves escape velocity then it can take a long long time to undo the damage. We're almost four decades into Iran being an Islamic state and I wonder how that would have all ended if there had not been so much meddling in Iran and Iraq (and less money flowing to the house of Saud). Quite possibly Iran (then Persia) would have been a real powerhouse in the region, highly educated citizenry and vast natural resources.
jimmyk 10y ago
Most terrorist acts in the U.S. are committed by white people By death count? Even if this is so, there are vastly more white people in the US. What's important are the per capita numbers. and the people pushing to make their religion the basis of law are also Christians, not Muslims. Why would you expect Muslims to try to impose their law on a society when they haven't got anywhere near the political power to succeed? How dumb do you think they are? The important questions are whether they'd try to impose their religion if they had much more political clout, and what the outcome of a successful imposition would be for the people here (hint: not awesome).

67726e 10y ago

jacquesm 10y ago
> How is Europe's open door policy working? Pretty good, all things considered. > I'd prefer they integrate, speak the language, and stop blowing shit up. Guess what: For 99.999% of them this already holds true. > Apparently that's too much to ask. No it isn't, and the refugees actually agree with you. > I'd also prefer they stop preaching support for fucking Sharia law, but that's too much to ask. Oh, the old Sharia law saw. Again, in no Western country is there a realistic chance of Sharia law being applied to you or me. But if two parties consent to having a non-official arbitration done then they are welcome to do so. Similar things happen in the Vatican and in the Jewish community and nobody ever thought that that was a problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Vatican_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Vatican_City (Note that the Vatican holds a very special position in spite of being inside the borders of Italy). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_din https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_din > You've got some real cognitive dissonance. Do you see me as supporting Sharia law? As for being against integration, teaching immigrants the local language or being pro 'blowing shit up': I'm against Sharia law as much as I'm against religion: but I recognize the law of the land here that says that people are allowed to do this since they are consenting adults, even if the net effects of both are quite possibly negatives. Just like I can't stop you from eating bad food or from smoking. Those are freedoms we give to everybody in order to not limit ourselves. Reduce those freedoms for others and we too will end up with reduced freedoms. I'm hardline against genital mutilation, whether done by Islam adherents or Jews is not relevant to me. That is the sort of invasion of bodily integrity that I really strongly disagree with and that no person should have the right to do to another, even when we're talking about parents and children. I'm 'pro' integration, but I also recognize that not everybody integrates equally well. And some simply don't care. Most notably: American, British and Japanese friends who after having been here decades still don't speak the language because they simply do not need to. Contrast with most Turkish and Moroccan immigrants who speak the language just fine. Other than that their 'integration' is their affair, not mine and the embarrassing integration courses that the government forces on refugees here are more hinder than help (and cost a fortune). Who gives a damn where our (immigrant) queen comes from? As for blowing shit up: the people that have the most to lose from assholes blowing shit up (or, you know, white guys running people through with swords) are the refugees and the immigrants. Because they (and their children) are going to be the ones to pay the price, not the idiots that blow themselves up.

senior_james 10y ago

Islam is not a race. Also, an act of terror by someone that just happens to be Christian is completely different than an act by someone doing it in the name of a religion, like Islam. "plain old racism" It's not racist to recognize patterns. You can't even draw Muhammad without getting death threats or even killed. The same can't be said about Jesus. The majority of the major terror attacks in the last 10 years have been done in the name of Islam. I also find it odd that the progressives in the US are all for women and gay rights. Yet, as soon as you have a Muslim majority, these are the first to go. People like you are the reason it will just continue to happen. A barbaric religion and culture allowed to destroy our way of life because you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I suspect something similar happened to the Roman empire.

kaitai 10y ago
Killing abortion providers or bombing a clinic explicitly in the name of some version of Christianity are examples of Christian terrorism, though, which have happened in the US recently. These are not acts that are incidental to the religious beliefs of the individuals perpetrating them. It's not anti-Christian to recognize patterns. You can't be a clinic that provides reproductive health services (even without abortions!) without getting threats, and you definitely can't provide abortions without getting death threats or even getting killed. If you look at mass killings in the US, the majority of major attacks in the US have been done by men who are white and nominally Christian, falling into the broad categories of "Christianity-motivated" or "bitter at life, esp. the military or women". Check out a list of US shootings at http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-m... for instance. Full disclosure: I'm some version of Christian too, but I feel quite threatened by other Christians who want to enforce their versions of morality upon me by law. I do not feel threatened by Sharia. When I got some testing done on my fetus at 20 weeks and was faced with a possible, but thankfully irrelevant, choice of being forced to carry a terminally ill or dead kid to term or not, it wasn't Muslims forcing me to make that choice.
- senior_james 10y ago
  "Killing abortion providers or bombing a clinic explicitly in the name of some version of Christianity are examples of Christian terrorism" I can think of this happening once or twice in the last 5 years. The volume of Muslim attacks is much higher. Both are wrong. "You can't be a clinic that provides reproductive health services (even without abortions!) without getting threats, and you definitely can't provide abortions without getting death threats or even getting killed." Abortion is legal in the United states and murders of clinic workers aren't really common. Try being a vocal Trump supporter in the US. You will get death threats too. However, people aren't actually carrying it out. "bitter at life, esp. the military or women" As I said, statistically, the United states has a large percentage of Christians (and people that are white), which means a large percentage of any murders are going to be white and Christian. However, they were not screaming "Jesus is great" during the murders nor trying to create a Christian state where anyone practicing another religion us murdered. "I do not feel threatened by Sharia." You don't feel threatened because you don't have to live under the rule of it. If we were under Sharia law, I don't think we would even be having this conversation. The people against it are trying to save everyone else from a terrible life. "it wasn't Muslims forcing me to make that choice." I think you need to learn more about Islam. Abortion is completely illegal in all Muslim countries and if you actually talk to someone that is not even that much of a fundamentalist, they are against abortion. Regardless of the religion, I don't want to be ruled by a mythical person that lived 2000 years ago with little regard to science.

viggity 10y ago

Gee, it is almost like white people make up a huge part of the population. Apply a little Bayes Theorem and visit back when you've run the numbers. Also, fwiw, Islam is not a race, hence you can't be racist for criticizing it. It is an ideological system. In that way it is no different than Democracy, Communism, Buddhism, Capitalism, Mormonism, Anarchism, etc, etc. Race doesn't define any of those ideologies either. In a free society we must be allowed to criticize ideas. I'm allowed to criticize Islamism and its practices and beliefs. I'm also allowed to criticize Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, et al. However only one of these ideologies regularly/commonly threatens to kill (and actually will kill) people who leave the faith. Only one of these ideologies has a large constituency who condones the intentional targeting of innocent civilians. It isn't a majority, but it isn't a fringe 1% either. Pew Research Surveys show the number to be 20-30% of these practitioners worldwide. (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...)

literallycancer 10y ago
Yeah, look at them evil Muslims.[1] Fundamentalists, every single one, right? Islam has issues, of course, just like any other ideology. Too bad the Wahhabis are largely successful in exporting their flavor of Islam.. but I guess that's what happens when you prop up oppressive regimes in the name of stability (and preferential access to natural resources). [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZIqdrFeFBk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZIqdrFeFBk
- jacquesm 10y ago
  The thing that really rams this home for me is pictures of Teheran before the revolution: http://www.vintag.es/2014/09/pictures-of-tehran-iran-ca-1960s-1970s.html http://www.vintag.es/2014/09/pictures-of-tehran-iran-ca-1960... The problem with all this is if it achieves escape velocity then it can take a long long time to undo the damage. We're almost four decades into Iran being an Islamic state and I wonder how that would have all ended if there had not been so much meddling in Iran and Iraq (and less money flowing to the house of Saud). Quite possibly Iran (then Persia) would have been a real powerhouse in the region, highly educated citizenry and vast natural resources.

jimmyk 10y ago

Most terrorist acts in the U.S. are committed by white people By death count? Even if this is so, there are vastly more white people in the US. What's important are the per capita numbers. and the people pushing to make their religion the basis of law are also Christians, not Muslims. Why would you expect Muslims to try to impose their law on a society when they haven't got anywhere near the political power to succeed? How dumb do you think they are? The important questions are whether they'd try to impose their religion if they had much more political clout, and what the outcome of a successful imposition would be for the people here (hint: not awesome).