6 ms·

I visited the US for the first time while on honeymoon and a couple of friends we visited while over there asked how I was handling doing work while away, it wa

by dnel 10y ago

I visited the US for the first time while on honeymoon and a couple of friends we visited while over there asked how I was handling doing work while away, it was an eye-opening insight into American culture I'd never witnessed before but it was a good opportunity to explain work-life balance from a European pov though, I didn't hear any counter-arguments from that small sample, maybe someday it'll catch on.

hellofunk 10y ago
In Holland, everyone takes off 4 - 6 weeks in the summer to travel the world. This is so different than Americans: 1) In the U.S. you can work for years at a company before getting more than 1 or 2 weeks paid vacation. 2) Most Americans don't travel much outside their own state or region, let alone country. Most don't even own passports. 3) Even when not on the job, either at night, on the weekends, or on vacation, Americans tend to stay attached to their job via email or phone. It's true that American salaries can be a lot higher than European ones, especially for developers. But Americans also typically do a lot of side jobs or have households with 2 or more full-time jobs per family, 2 or more cars per family. So one has to ask if it is all worth it?
- dnel 10y ago
  That's the benefit of travel isn't it, these same friends we visited had come over to the UK 2 years prior for the first time and that experience adjusted a lot of their pre-concieved ideas about the British in a positive way. If American's were enabled to take the time to see the world a bit more they would be less reliant on media stereotypes to understand it and might question their lot a bit more often but perhaps that's not in the interests of the people who run America.
  - hellofunk 10y ago
    As Twain said, "Travel is fatal to prejudice." Americans could use a little less prejudice in their lives.
- readittwice 10y ago
  Why should Americans bother to have a passport? Their country is so huge, probably more than you could visit in a lifetime. Deserts, mountains, cities, ... In Europe countries and the continent are smaller, Vienna for example literally has 3 other countries in commuting distance. It is quite obvious that you are more likely to need a passport here in Europe. A much fairer comparison would be to only count Europeans that use their passport to travel to other continents.
  - jdietrich 10y ago
    Visiting a foreign country is regarded as an essential rite of passage in many parts of the world. Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience. Your understanding of "normal" can shift very quickly when you get to experience being a foreigner. I can't help but think that passport ownership is one of the fundamental cultural divides in the US. It's difficult to understand the value of travelling abroad if you've never experienced it and don't know many people who have. Geography is no excuse - Australians are prolific international travellers, despite the size of their continent and their oceanic isolation. Spending a year abroad is the norm for young Aussies, but it's still regarded as a rare privilege for young Americans.
    - koolba 10y ago
      > Visiting a foreign country is regarded as an essential rite of passage in many parts of the world. Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience. Your understanding of "normal" can shift very quickly when you get to experience being a foreigner. True but America is a wide enough place that you can have most of that without leaving the continental USA. Growing up in Podunk, USA makes people from Big City, USA feel like foreigners (and vice versa). I'm not saying don't go outside the USA (quite the contrary!) but there's quite a bit you can do and see here without a passport. > I can't help but think that passport ownership is one of the fundamental cultural divides in the US. It's difficult to understand the value of travelling abroad if you've never experienced it and don't know many people who have. Very true and I don't know anyone that's traveled extensively that doesn't comment on it being a positive experience in hindsight (aside from business travelers complaining about going back to the same places they don't particular like month after month).
- Aaargh20318 10y ago
  > In Holland, everyone takes off 4 - 6 weeks in the summer to travel the world. This is so different than Americans No we don't. I have 5 weeks of holiday a year, total. I take 2 weeks around christmas. Maybe a week somewhere in Spring, that leaves 2 weeks summer holidays. Plus, you want to keep a few spare days in case you need an incidental day off for whatever reason.
  - dukeluke 10y ago
    I'm sad to say that your experience with PTO is not the norm in the US. The lower and most of the middle classes have it much worse: http://theweek.com/articles/463897/americas-war-vacation-by-numbers http://theweek.com/articles/463897/americas-war-vacation-by-...
    - Aaargh20318 10y ago
      To clarify: I live in the Netherlands and I was disagreeing with the fact that everyone takes off 4-6 weeks to travel around the world each summer. Most people only get 5 weeks of holiday a year total (4 weeks is the legal minimum) and they usually spread out those days over the year. If you can travel the world for 6 weeks every summer then you have an above-average number of free days and probably an above-average income to be able to afford that much travel. We do get vacation money (8% of your gross salary, usually paid in may) but that's not nearly enough for 6 weeks of travel unless you saved up a lot.
      - hellofunk 10y ago
        I said 4 - 6 weeks; you are focusing on the "6" but I know many, many Dutch (my neighbors, actually) who are gone a full month every summer, like clockwork. Nearly everyone on my street. It's always either July or August. You say people "only" get 5 weeks of holiday, but that only supports my main point about the huge difference between that and what Americans are used to.
        Aaargh20318 10y ago
- Asooka 10y ago
  So assuming one would want to work in the US, how do you bargain for the standard 6 weeks vacation? Or are there just a few positions where you can get that?
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  I find it hard to believe nobody in the Netherlands dislikes traveling.
te_chris 10y ago
So this. I was on holiday in Mexico with my GF and American's kept asking if it was our honeymoon. They couldn't understand being able to take 4 weeks off and travel! (From NZ)

by dnel 10y ago

hellofunk 10y ago

In Holland, everyone takes off 4 - 6 weeks in the summer to travel the world. This is so different than Americans: 1) In the U.S. you can work for years at a company before getting more than 1 or 2 weeks paid vacation. 2) Most Americans don't travel much outside their own state or region, let alone country. Most don't even own passports. 3) Even when not on the job, either at night, on the weekends, or on vacation, Americans tend to stay attached to their job via email or phone. It's true that American salaries can be a lot higher than European ones, especially for developers. But Americans also typically do a lot of side jobs or have households with 2 or more full-time jobs per family, 2 or more cars per family. So one has to ask if it is all worth it?

dnel 10y ago
That's the benefit of travel isn't it, these same friends we visited had come over to the UK 2 years prior for the first time and that experience adjusted a lot of their pre-concieved ideas about the British in a positive way. If American's were enabled to take the time to see the world a bit more they would be less reliant on media stereotypes to understand it and might question their lot a bit more often but perhaps that's not in the interests of the people who run America.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  As Twain said, "Travel is fatal to prejudice." Americans could use a little less prejudice in their lives.
readittwice 10y ago
Why should Americans bother to have a passport? Their country is so huge, probably more than you could visit in a lifetime. Deserts, mountains, cities, ... In Europe countries and the continent are smaller, Vienna for example literally has 3 other countries in commuting distance. It is quite obvious that you are more likely to need a passport here in Europe. A much fairer comparison would be to only count Europeans that use their passport to travel to other continents.
- jdietrich 10y ago
  Visiting a foreign country is regarded as an essential rite of passage in many parts of the world. Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience. Your understanding of "normal" can shift very quickly when you get to experience being a foreigner. I can't help but think that passport ownership is one of the fundamental cultural divides in the US. It's difficult to understand the value of travelling abroad if you've never experienced it and don't know many people who have. Geography is no excuse - Australians are prolific international travellers, despite the size of their continent and their oceanic isolation. Spending a year abroad is the norm for young Aussies, but it's still regarded as a rare privilege for young Americans.
  - koolba 10y ago
    > Visiting a foreign country is regarded as an essential rite of passage in many parts of the world. Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience. Your understanding of "normal" can shift very quickly when you get to experience being a foreigner. True but America is a wide enough place that you can have most of that without leaving the continental USA. Growing up in Podunk, USA makes people from Big City, USA feel like foreigners (and vice versa). I'm not saying don't go outside the USA (quite the contrary!) but there's quite a bit you can do and see here without a passport. > I can't help but think that passport ownership is one of the fundamental cultural divides in the US. It's difficult to understand the value of travelling abroad if you've never experienced it and don't know many people who have. Very true and I don't know anyone that's traveled extensively that doesn't comment on it being a positive experience in hindsight (aside from business travelers complaining about going back to the same places they don't particular like month after month).
Aaargh20318 10y ago
> In Holland, everyone takes off 4 - 6 weeks in the summer to travel the world. This is so different than Americans No we don't. I have 5 weeks of holiday a year, total. I take 2 weeks around christmas. Maybe a week somewhere in Spring, that leaves 2 weeks summer holidays. Plus, you want to keep a few spare days in case you need an incidental day off for whatever reason.
- dukeluke 10y ago
  I'm sad to say that your experience with PTO is not the norm in the US. The lower and most of the middle classes have it much worse: http://theweek.com/articles/463897/americas-war-vacation-by-numbers http://theweek.com/articles/463897/americas-war-vacation-by-...
  - Aaargh20318 10y ago
    To clarify: I live in the Netherlands and I was disagreeing with the fact that everyone takes off 4-6 weeks to travel around the world each summer. Most people only get 5 weeks of holiday a year total (4 weeks is the legal minimum) and they usually spread out those days over the year. If you can travel the world for 6 weeks every summer then you have an above-average number of free days and probably an above-average income to be able to afford that much travel. We do get vacation money (8% of your gross salary, usually paid in may) but that's not nearly enough for 6 weeks of travel unless you saved up a lot.
    - hellofunk 10y ago
      I said 4 - 6 weeks; you are focusing on the "6" but I know many, many Dutch (my neighbors, actually) who are gone a full month every summer, like clockwork. Nearly everyone on my street. It's always either July or August. You say people "only" get 5 weeks of holiday, but that only supports my main point about the huge difference between that and what Americans are used to.
      - Aaargh20318 10y ago
Asooka 10y ago
So assuming one would want to work in the US, how do you bargain for the standard 6 weeks vacation? Or are there just a few positions where you can get that?
nommm-nommm 10y ago
I find it hard to believe nobody in the Netherlands dislikes traveling.

te_chris 10y ago

So this. I was on holiday in Mexico with my GF and American's kept asking if it was our honeymoon. They couldn't understand being able to take 4 weeks off and travel! (From NZ)