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Here are a couple of good article on the effect these startups have had in China: http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2017/01/24/shanghais-mobike-mania-inv

by imron 10y ago

Here are a couple of good article on the effect these startups have had in China: http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2017/01/24/shanghais-mobike-mania-invites-competition http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2017/01/24/shanghais... http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2017/02/22/ofo-rental-bikes-are-getting-owned http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2017/02/22/ofo-renta... Expect to see piles and piles of unused bikes littering the streets. Another poster was worried about theft, when the market is saturated by venture-backed bicycles a greater problem for most people will be lack of theft.

drozycki 10y ago
Oh the humanity. Seriously though those scenes seem fine except for the one with the big pile of bikes. That is avoided by having a credit card on file and charging the user who couldn't be bothered to lock the bike when he was done. The benefits include less vehicle and transit congestion and all the health that comes with exercise.
- rahimnathwani 10y ago
  "That is avoided by having a credit card on file and charging the user who couldn't be bothered to lock the bike when he was done." The bikes are locked only to themselves, not to a railing. So even a locked bike can easily be loaded onto a truck if the city decides it's cluttering up the place.
  - imron 10y ago
    Exactly. The whole point of these bikes is that they aren't docked to anything and can be left anywhere. You can happily leave the bike parked correctly and in good condition, but there's nothing to stop a random stranger/group of drunk students making piles of bikes for shits and giggles.
    - lucaspiller 10y ago
      I wonder if a simple alarm system based on movement would help deter the nuisance behaviour. It has GPS, so you could set an allowed range so people could still move them a few meters if, for example, the bikes are blocking their entrance.
      - rahimnathwani 10y ago
        Nope. Some of them have movement alarms. No one cares.
    - Luc 10y ago
      I don't quite get it, since regular bikes are parked like that where I live, legally. I haven't seen piles yet.
      - imron 10y ago
        See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/17/chinese-discard-hundreds-of-cycles-for-hire-in-giant-pile https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/17/chinese-discar...
      - rahimnathwani 10y ago
        When you park your own bike, even a cheap one, you are somewhat careful about where you park it, because if someone knocks it over or moves it, it affects you directly. The same is not true of a Mobike or Ofo, so people are more likely to park inconsiderately (e.g. blocking the blind person's path, or the whole width of a narrow pavement). I was pushing a stroller recently and had to move off the pavement onto the road, to avoid a line of dockless rental bikes that were blocking my intended path.
        Luc 10y ago
        Thanks, that's a good example.
        imron 10y ago
        > e.g. blocking the blind person's path To be fair, the braille paths in China aren't exactly blind-friendly in the first place: http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1299761/beijings-blind-criticise-poorly-planned-pathways http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1299761/beiji...
- rando444 10y ago
  You're correct about the benefits, but wrong about the downsides. The bikes lock to themselves, and they explain in the article that they are already using a behavior system to reward people for good behavior and punishing users who abuse the system. (although this doesn't prevent sanitation workers from creating bike piles to clear walkways and footpaths where the bikes are often discarded) The second biggest problem, as the article mentions, is the fact that with bikes scattered everywhere and no real organizational system, that all of the bikes fall into disrepair and the majority are not properly maintained.
matt4077 10y ago
We've had them Berlin for something like ten years, with a break in between where the provider switched to a station-based model. There have never been any piles. The bikes they use are incredibly sturdy and probably cost around $1000, so it's really not in their interest to let them go to waste. With a floating model, you do run into the problem that usage pattern tend to distribute the bikes unevenly – people are more likely to choose the bike for the way back because either they're drunk and think it'd be fun, or public transport takes to long at night, or just because you're in a better mood after a busy day than just after getting up in the morning. That means you do need teams to redistribute bikes, and that may sink your business model. But any data-driven organisation will seize to operate a system dysfunctional enough to have more than 15 bikes at the same street corner.
- imron 10y ago
  The problem is caused by a) the no docking station model b) multiple venture capital backed firms competing for marketshare and c) cheap bicycles. Has Berlin had those 3 factors at play for the last 10 years? If not, that is why there is no problem with piles. All those things are in play in China, and the companies doing it are looking to expand overseas. Don't get me wrong, public bike systems are great, but care needs to taken with how they are implemented.
ricardobeat 10y ago
All of those pictures - except the one with the pile of tangled bikes - look like a very, very calm day in the Netherlands :)

by imron 10y ago

drozycki 10y ago

Oh the humanity. Seriously though those scenes seem fine except for the one with the big pile of bikes. That is avoided by having a credit card on file and charging the user who couldn't be bothered to lock the bike when he was done. The benefits include less vehicle and transit congestion and all the health that comes with exercise.

rahimnathwani 10y ago
"That is avoided by having a credit card on file and charging the user who couldn't be bothered to lock the bike when he was done." The bikes are locked only to themselves, not to a railing. So even a locked bike can easily be loaded onto a truck if the city decides it's cluttering up the place.
- imron 10y ago
  Exactly. The whole point of these bikes is that they aren't docked to anything and can be left anywhere. You can happily leave the bike parked correctly and in good condition, but there's nothing to stop a random stranger/group of drunk students making piles of bikes for shits and giggles.
  - lucaspiller 10y ago
    I wonder if a simple alarm system based on movement would help deter the nuisance behaviour. It has GPS, so you could set an allowed range so people could still move them a few meters if, for example, the bikes are blocking their entrance.
    - rahimnathwani 10y ago
      Nope. Some of them have movement alarms. No one cares.
  - Luc 10y ago
    I don't quite get it, since regular bikes are parked like that where I live, legally. I haven't seen piles yet.
    - imron 10y ago
      See: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/17/chinese-discard-hundreds-of-cycles-for-hire-in-giant-pile https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/17/chinese-discar...
    - rahimnathwani 10y ago
      When you park your own bike, even a cheap one, you are somewhat careful about where you park it, because if someone knocks it over or moves it, it affects you directly. The same is not true of a Mobike or Ofo, so people are more likely to park inconsiderately (e.g. blocking the blind person's path, or the whole width of a narrow pavement). I was pushing a stroller recently and had to move off the pavement onto the road, to avoid a line of dockless rental bikes that were blocking my intended path.
      - Luc 10y ago
        Thanks, that's a good example.
      - imron 10y ago
        > e.g. blocking the blind person's path To be fair, the braille paths in China aren't exactly blind-friendly in the first place: http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1299761/beijings-blind-criticise-poorly-planned-pathways http://www.scmp.com/news/china-insider/article/1299761/beiji...
rando444 10y ago
You're correct about the benefits, but wrong about the downsides. The bikes lock to themselves, and they explain in the article that they are already using a behavior system to reward people for good behavior and punishing users who abuse the system. (although this doesn't prevent sanitation workers from creating bike piles to clear walkways and footpaths where the bikes are often discarded) The second biggest problem, as the article mentions, is the fact that with bikes scattered everywhere and no real organizational system, that all of the bikes fall into disrepair and the majority are not properly maintained.

matt4077 10y ago

We've had them Berlin for something like ten years, with a break in between where the provider switched to a station-based model. There have never been any piles. The bikes they use are incredibly sturdy and probably cost around $1000, so it's really not in their interest to let them go to waste. With a floating model, you do run into the problem that usage pattern tend to distribute the bikes unevenly – people are more likely to choose the bike for the way back because either they're drunk and think it'd be fun, or public transport takes to long at night, or just because you're in a better mood after a busy day than just after getting up in the morning. That means you do need teams to redistribute bikes, and that may sink your business model. But any data-driven organisation will seize to operate a system dysfunctional enough to have more than 15 bikes at the same street corner.

imron 10y ago
The problem is caused by a) the no docking station model b) multiple venture capital backed firms competing for marketshare and c) cheap bicycles. Has Berlin had those 3 factors at play for the last 10 years? If not, that is why there is no problem with piles. All those things are in play in China, and the companies doing it are looking to expand overseas. Don't get me wrong, public bike systems are great, but care needs to taken with how they are implemented.

ricardobeat 10y ago

All of those pictures - except the one with the pile of tangled bikes - look like a very, very calm day in the Netherlands :)