8 ms·

Downvote me to hell, but I think people drink too much coffee (and caffeinated drinks), it's just not necessary and is an addictive substance. I think it's a to

Downvote me to hell, but I think people drink too much coffee (and caffeinated drinks), it's just not necessary and is an addictive substance. I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out. Anyone else on here who abstains from caffeine?

freese 10y ago
I think you're making a great point - coffee is the legal drug at the moment. Personally, I drink coffee for the flavor, not for the caffeine. I'm a big fan of high-quality decaf coffee and it's something we're looking to do with Sudden.
- aedron 10y ago
  I think you would have a shot at a solid niche with the decaf angle. Think about this: At practically every workplace you can get real coffee, which will probably always beat freeze-dried stuff. But if you want decaf you are SOL. I am currently forced to drink Nestlé Gold Decaf and it is just barely tolerable. I don't know how your product compares but personally I would spring for anything better in a heartbeat, price be damned.
  - freese 10y ago
    This is really great to hear. We've had a good amount of demand for decaf option and are working on it. Email me and I'll keep you in the loop
- chrismartin 10y ago
  > Personally, I drink coffee for the flavor, not for the caffeine. I'm a big fan of high-quality decaf coffee > On the flight back to Helsinki I was desperate for caffeine and ordered a coffee Denial is a common sign of addiction :)
- ribs 10y ago
  I'd dig good instant decaf. I don't want any caffeine but coffee can be delicious. Give me a shot at coffee snobbery!
  - freese 10y ago
    Totally agree with you! Email me if you're interested in staying in loop with our decaf version
- jb1991 10y ago
  Coffee is no more a drug than sugar.
  - freese 10y ago
    ...yet there's a lot of research showing that sugar IS helluva drug. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/ https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-wor...
ern 10y ago
I'm forced to take coffee to keep up with my fellow developers, but I agree with you. I suspect that the world would be a calmer and happier (albeit slower moving) place without caffeine.
chrismartin 10y ago
Uptownfunk, I also severely limit my caffeine intake (right now zero). It's a tool that mitigates fatigue at the expense of anxiety, irritability, and sleep disruption. Through an anthropologist's lens, caffeine helps adapt unreliable human mental concentration to an industrial/capitalist society. (Just like ritalin and adderall!) See ern's comment regarding "forced to take coffee to keep up with my fellow developers". I've observed that coffee is the most common beverage (after water) which employers freely distribute in the workplace. This said, many folks prefer a caffeinated existence and don't experience the side effects. If it works out for you, then enjoy it!
- MaulingMonkey 10y ago
  I've actually had caffeine help regulate my sleep at times - I figure it helps me use my energy up earlier in the day, leaving me with less difficulty getting to sleep at night. That said, I do get a day or three of withdrawl headaches if I go cold turkey these days. I recently went through a 4-5 week abstinence - not my first - but was extremely surprised when, this time, I temporarily became a morning person for the first 3 weeks of it. That's new. Then my schedule reverted to it's normal night owl behavior - presumably after deacclimatizing from my previous caffeine intake levels. I'm not abstaining currently, but I am trying to keep it in moderation. My main source of caffeine comes with too much sugar (in the form of energy drinks), which I'm a bit more worried about. Fewer drinks, smaller drinks (e.g. consuming half portions), healthier & decoupled substitutes (real fruit for the sugar, tea for the caffeine.) I never acquired a taste for coffee, for better or worse.
- hellofunk 10y ago
  There is widespread evidence that coffee provides nutritional benefits not found in any other plant or food. And moderate caffeine can be a sum positive effect on the body, as long as you don't go overboard. The anxiety you mention is not the norm if coffee is handled responsibly, and actually it can help stabilize anxiety over time if used consistently.
- uptownfunk 10y ago
  Yes, I used to be an avid coffee drinker, but I would get so irritable that my relationships would suffer so I quit. Things are much better now, and I find that I have more energy now naturally than I had before when I was a caffeine-addict.
tps5 10y ago
> I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out Do you have any evidence for this or is it a hmm-I-better-not-vaccinate-my-children-because-I-think-it-will-give-them-autism type statement?
- stagbeetle 10y ago
  I tried looking for anything that would concur with his point, but all the sources Google Scholar gave me were very untrustworthy. I did, however, find this neat little article on the "myth" of adrenal fatigue, from Crossfit.[0] There's a part that says caffeine overuse can trigger general fatigue (or adrenal fatigue as refereed to the alternative medicine crowd). http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_2015_07_Adrenal_Examine.pdf http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_2015_07_Adrenal_Exa... ((Of-topic, are there any other good research aggregators besides Google Scholar?))
  - jaggederest 10y ago
    I like examine.com, they have a reasonable summary. It looks like there's not much strong evidence on any claim. The ones shown seem positive. https://examine.com/supplements/coffee/ https://examine.com/supplements/coffee/
  - rcar 10y ago
    Cochrane (http://www.cochrane.org/ http://www.cochrane.org/) is often a good aggregator for medicine-related subjects. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they've got anything good for this one -- just a few things relating to caffeine and pain, pregnancy, etc.: http://uk.cochrane.org/news/caffeine-and-health-evidence-cochrane http://uk.cochrane.org/news/caffeine-and-health-evidence-coc...
snovv_crash 10y ago
I do the same. I see it as a performance enhancing drug, and as such I'd prefer to keep it for when I need it, instead of constantly staying dosed on it and then suffering withdrawal when I go off. For those who naysay the withdrawal, I've seen multiple people complain of debilitating cluster headaches after about 3 days of no coffee. The other thing that I've seen is people who complain about anxiety, but start every day with 2 coffees. If you were injecting adrenaline and then complaining about anxiety you would be laughed out of the room, but for some reason with coffee it is acceptable.
aedron 10y ago
It is a great mystery to me how so many people drink so much coffee. In the early days of my work life I started drinking a cup of coffee here and there. It helps if you're tired in the afternoon, and I like the taste. Then I started having a cup after lunch since everyone else went for it. Not long after, I'd have a cup first thing in the morning, and not too long after that I would be a complete zombie without drinking coffee from the morning and into the afternoon. It took hard work kicking that habit, but I did, only because: (1) I don't like having such a strong dependency, it just seems unhealthy, and (2) I become irritable and jumpy in the evening if I have had coffee during the day. Maybe I'm just more sensitive, I don't know. It sucks because I love the taste of coffee. These days I have a big jar of Nestle Instant Decaf at my desk and I dip into that every other day, just because I miss the taste of coffee, for which the instant just barely qualifies, but those are the lengths I go to. Now, if someone would come up with a decent instant decaf I would happily throw my money at that.
- freese 10y ago
  We're hearing this from more and more people. Luckily, there are some great decaf whole bean coffees but if something sucks it's the decaf instant coffee. We're working on a decaf version that will taste awesome, so stay tuned.
  - uptownfunk 10y ago
    I would try the decaf, but to be competitive you'd have to beat out or match the quality I get from blue bottle, phils, or Peet's. I won't even mention charbucks.

freese 10y ago

I think you're making a great point - coffee is the legal drug at the moment. Personally, I drink coffee for the flavor, not for the caffeine. I'm a big fan of high-quality decaf coffee and it's something we're looking to do with Sudden.

aedron 10y ago
I think you would have a shot at a solid niche with the decaf angle. Think about this: At practically every workplace you can get real coffee, which will probably always beat freeze-dried stuff. But if you want decaf you are SOL. I am currently forced to drink Nestlé Gold Decaf and it is just barely tolerable. I don't know how your product compares but personally I would spring for anything better in a heartbeat, price be damned.
- freese 10y ago
  This is really great to hear. We've had a good amount of demand for decaf option and are working on it. Email me and I'll keep you in the loop
chrismartin 10y ago
> Personally, I drink coffee for the flavor, not for the caffeine. I'm a big fan of high-quality decaf coffee > On the flight back to Helsinki I was desperate for caffeine and ordered a coffee Denial is a common sign of addiction :)
ribs 10y ago
I'd dig good instant decaf. I don't want any caffeine but coffee can be delicious. Give me a shot at coffee snobbery!
- freese 10y ago
  Totally agree with you! Email me if you're interested in staying in loop with our decaf version
jb1991 10y ago
Coffee is no more a drug than sugar.
- freese 10y ago
  ...yet there's a lot of research showing that sugar IS helluva drug. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/ https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-worlds-most-popular-drug https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/05/is-sugar-wor...

ern 10y ago

I'm forced to take coffee to keep up with my fellow developers, but I agree with you. I suspect that the world would be a calmer and happier (albeit slower moving) place without caffeine.

chrismartin 10y ago

Uptownfunk, I also severely limit my caffeine intake (right now zero). It's a tool that mitigates fatigue at the expense of anxiety, irritability, and sleep disruption. Through an anthropologist's lens, caffeine helps adapt unreliable human mental concentration to an industrial/capitalist society. (Just like ritalin and adderall!) See ern's comment regarding "forced to take coffee to keep up with my fellow developers". I've observed that coffee is the most common beverage (after water) which employers freely distribute in the workplace. This said, many folks prefer a caffeinated existence and don't experience the side effects. If it works out for you, then enjoy it!

MaulingMonkey 10y ago
I've actually had caffeine help regulate my sleep at times - I figure it helps me use my energy up earlier in the day, leaving me with less difficulty getting to sleep at night. That said, I do get a day or three of withdrawl headaches if I go cold turkey these days. I recently went through a 4-5 week abstinence - not my first - but was extremely surprised when, this time, I temporarily became a morning person for the first 3 weeks of it. That's new. Then my schedule reverted to it's normal night owl behavior - presumably after deacclimatizing from my previous caffeine intake levels. I'm not abstaining currently, but I am trying to keep it in moderation. My main source of caffeine comes with too much sugar (in the form of energy drinks), which I'm a bit more worried about. Fewer drinks, smaller drinks (e.g. consuming half portions), healthier & decoupled substitutes (real fruit for the sugar, tea for the caffeine.) I never acquired a taste for coffee, for better or worse.
hellofunk 10y ago
There is widespread evidence that coffee provides nutritional benefits not found in any other plant or food. And moderate caffeine can be a sum positive effect on the body, as long as you don't go overboard. The anxiety you mention is not the norm if coffee is handled responsibly, and actually it can help stabilize anxiety over time if used consistently.
uptownfunk 10y ago
Yes, I used to be an avid coffee drinker, but I would get so irritable that my relationships would suffer so I quit. Things are much better now, and I find that I have more energy now naturally than I had before when I was a caffeine-addict.

tps5 10y ago

> I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out Do you have any evidence for this or is it a hmm-I-better-not-vaccinate-my-children-because-I-think-it-will-give-them-autism type statement?

stagbeetle 10y ago
I tried looking for anything that would concur with his point, but all the sources Google Scholar gave me were very untrustworthy. I did, however, find this neat little article on the "myth" of adrenal fatigue, from Crossfit.[0] There's a part that says caffeine overuse can trigger general fatigue (or adrenal fatigue as refereed to the alternative medicine crowd). http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_2015_07_Adrenal_Examine.pdf http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_2015_07_Adrenal_Exa... ((Of-topic, are there any other good research aggregators besides Google Scholar?))
- jaggederest 10y ago
  I like examine.com, they have a reasonable summary. It looks like there's not much strong evidence on any claim. The ones shown seem positive. https://examine.com/supplements/coffee/ https://examine.com/supplements/coffee/
- rcar 10y ago
  Cochrane (http://www.cochrane.org/ http://www.cochrane.org/) is often a good aggregator for medicine-related subjects. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they've got anything good for this one -- just a few things relating to caffeine and pain, pregnancy, etc.: http://uk.cochrane.org/news/caffeine-and-health-evidence-cochrane http://uk.cochrane.org/news/caffeine-and-health-evidence-coc...

snovv_crash 10y ago

I do the same. I see it as a performance enhancing drug, and as such I'd prefer to keep it for when I need it, instead of constantly staying dosed on it and then suffering withdrawal when I go off. For those who naysay the withdrawal, I've seen multiple people complain of debilitating cluster headaches after about 3 days of no coffee. The other thing that I've seen is people who complain about anxiety, but start every day with 2 coffees. If you were injecting adrenaline and then complaining about anxiety you would be laughed out of the room, but for some reason with coffee it is acceptable.

aedron 10y ago

It is a great mystery to me how so many people drink so much coffee. In the early days of my work life I started drinking a cup of coffee here and there. It helps if you're tired in the afternoon, and I like the taste. Then I started having a cup after lunch since everyone else went for it. Not long after, I'd have a cup first thing in the morning, and not too long after that I would be a complete zombie without drinking coffee from the morning and into the afternoon. It took hard work kicking that habit, but I did, only because: (1) I don't like having such a strong dependency, it just seems unhealthy, and (2) I become irritable and jumpy in the evening if I have had coffee during the day. Maybe I'm just more sensitive, I don't know. It sucks because I love the taste of coffee. These days I have a big jar of Nestle Instant Decaf at my desk and I dip into that every other day, just because I miss the taste of coffee, for which the instant just barely qualifies, but those are the lengths I go to. Now, if someone would come up with a decent instant decaf I would happily throw my money at that.

freese 10y ago
We're hearing this from more and more people. Luckily, there are some great decaf whole bean coffees but if something sucks it's the decaf instant coffee. We're working on a decaf version that will taste awesome, so stay tuned.
- uptownfunk 10y ago
  I would try the decaf, but to be competitive you'd have to beat out or match the quality I get from blue bottle, phils, or Peet's. I won't even mention charbucks.