5 ms·

Wasn't a problem with "bad" instant coffee largely solved by Starbucks VIA, which too utilizes a novel tech that produces very decent results? Even the mega sno

Wasn't a problem with "bad" instant coffee largely solved by Starbucks VIA, which too utilizes a novel tech that produces very decent results? Even the mega snobs of /r/coffee were largely OK with it came out few years ago. Also, re: this - Instant coffee is liquid coffee that’s been dehydrated. It’s normally made with the worst beans ... Next, the liquid is boiled down and finally dehydrated by spray drying it with hot air. From what I remember this is how Nestle was making its first version of instant coffee back in 1930s. It then switched to the freeze-drying method in mid 60s, which is still used to make Nescafe Gold. It's very cool to see that you made your own brewing/dehydration tech, but twisting facts and bad-mouthing your competitors is not the right way to go about promoting yourselves.

ryanSrich 10y ago
Every flight I've been on with Starbucks VIA has been absolute trash. Airplane coffee quite literally tastes like it was made with toilet water. That's honestly the only way I can describe it. I'm bearish on any improvements because I'm convinced the problem is the water they use.
- gingerbread-man 10y ago
  You're spot on re: the water quality. An investigation at DFW a few years ago found hazardous levels of e.coli in the potable water tanks used to refill aircraft. I wonder why the airlines aren't doing anything about this. I'm not a frequent first-class passenger, but if I were, high-quality coffee would be a big deal for me.
  - freese 10y ago
    Plane water is really nasty. Even Sudden made it will not taste great. You can mix Sudden with cold water by shaking it in a bottle and that's what I usually do when traveling
  - objclxt 10y ago
    > I'm not a frequent first-class passenger, but if I were, high-quality coffee would be a big deal for me. Many transatlantic and transpacific flights now have a proper grind-on-demand coffee machine (allowing for lattes, cappuccinos, etc) in business / first class. Doesn't necessarily solve the water problem, although they can fill them up from bottled (I don't know if they actually do).
    - freese 10y ago
      Definitely looking to do plane coffee at some point but the water quality remains biggest issue.
  - blhack 10y ago
    I don't think I've ever been on an airplane that served "tap water". It's always been bottled.
    - freese 10y ago
      drinking water is but hot water for brewing coffee comes from big tanks that get really gross
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Balgair 10y ago
  The decrease in air pressure and humidity also have big effects on your sensation of food(smell and taste) http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150112-why-in-flight-food-tastes-weird http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150112-why-in-flight-food-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9408563 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9408563
  - freese 10y ago
    Apparently the companies making coffee for planes have (de)pressure chambers to conduct tastings.
    - Balgair 10y ago
      If that is true, they they are running incredible margins to afford that. A human sized negative pressure chamber is not any easy thing to obtain or maintain, even to airplane climates specs. Most likely, they rent out time on someone else's chamber or just take a chartered flight and test on the plane.
  - Johnnybe 10y ago
    Not true, I took an Aeropress on an international flight and made fresh coffee throughout the flight. It tasted great. The hot stewardesses had no problem letting me use their hot water which was nice.
    - lazyasciiart 10y ago
      You're actually arguing that the environment of a plane doesn't have any effect on people's sense of taste because one time you totally liked your cup of coffee on a plane?
- dghughes 10y ago
  I make Starbucks VIA instant coffee at home and it's quite good. If I make it at work it's horrible so I'd say water quality is a big factor. At both home and work I used tap water both from the same city source. For the airplane I wonder if the water isn't getting hot enough due to lower atmospheric pressure. The flight attendant see it boiling so they assume boiling means hot but it may only be 80C not 100C. I know when I make the Starbucks VIA I make sure the water is boiling well (I live at sea level) and it's really hot otherwise it doesn't work out.
JasonSage 10y ago
I actually liked Starbucks VIA until I got violently sick off of it once. I'd probably try it again though, it was pretty darn good for instant coffee.
- freese 10y ago
  I agree with you here. VIA is not bad - it tastes remarkably similar to what you'd get at a Starbucks. I think it's up to everyone to determine whether that's coffee they like or not
zloof 10y ago
So I'd say look at it like a spectrum. In the cafe world there is - average/ not-so-great drip coffee --> Starbucks --> Speciality/ Third Wave Coffee. I don't know how VIA makes their product, but if you do a side-by-side taste test with Sudden vs VIA, I 100% guarantee you will notice (and prefer) Sudden. We do in fact use a pretty unique bean selection + brewing process to achieve it. Re: drying techniques - it really varies brand by brand and when you go to a store shelf in the US, most of the brands you see are spray dried, not freeze dried. In the US, you specifically have to look for brands that say 'freeze dried' and it's usually reserved for the more expensive instant coffees. Spray drying is much cheaper, but yields a lower quality product. Freeze dried coffee is a lot more common outside of the US. Even within freeze drying - we use a smaller batch freeze drying process. I've worked in large scale manufacturing before and with a smaller batch process we are able to achieve much higher quality levels. Re: beans - most coffee beans bought and sold are bought as a commodity product - think rice, beans, etc. They can literally be years old before being brewed. We have seen lots of these beans and they visibly have mold and insect damage. The beans we use are hand-picked when ripe. Much closer to picking grapes from a vineyard.
- brogrammernot 10y ago
  I'm not trying to be an asshole, but do you really see this company taking off? You're battling the known perception of instant coffee being awful and trying to sell a super premium product within a group that's tailored to buy cheap coffee because they just don't care. That's just a brutal uphill battle from a consumer education standpoint and a price comparison standpoint. I get that you're not trying to compare your product, which I'm sure has great quality, to the $8 jar of instant coffee but that's what the general consumer is going to do. I will openly admit, I hated coffee until I tried a fresh cup from a friend who owns his own small business roasting coffee beans and it was incredible. I truly hope you do succeed as that'll ideally allow you to run larger production runs to drive down costs to more affordable prices for everyone.
  - freese 10y ago
    When I was starting to work on Sudden I knew that the biggest challenge would be around the perception of instant coffee. It's a lot of work but we have a pretty solid plan and traction right now!

ryanSrich 10y ago

Every flight I've been on with Starbucks VIA has been absolute trash. Airplane coffee quite literally tastes like it was made with toilet water. That's honestly the only way I can describe it. I'm bearish on any improvements because I'm convinced the problem is the water they use.

gingerbread-man 10y ago
You're spot on re: the water quality. An investigation at DFW a few years ago found hazardous levels of e.coli in the potable water tanks used to refill aircraft. I wonder why the airlines aren't doing anything about this. I'm not a frequent first-class passenger, but if I were, high-quality coffee would be a big deal for me.
- freese 10y ago
  Plane water is really nasty. Even Sudden made it will not taste great. You can mix Sudden with cold water by shaking it in a bottle and that's what I usually do when traveling
- objclxt 10y ago
  > I'm not a frequent first-class passenger, but if I were, high-quality coffee would be a big deal for me. Many transatlantic and transpacific flights now have a proper grind-on-demand coffee machine (allowing for lattes, cappuccinos, etc) in business / first class. Doesn't necessarily solve the water problem, although they can fill them up from bottled (I don't know if they actually do).
  - freese 10y ago
    Definitely looking to do plane coffee at some point but the water quality remains biggest issue.
- blhack 10y ago
  I don't think I've ever been on an airplane that served "tap water". It's always been bottled.
  - freese 10y ago
    drinking water is but hot water for brewing coffee comes from big tanks that get really gross
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Balgair 10y ago
The decrease in air pressure and humidity also have big effects on your sensation of food(smell and taste) http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150112-why-in-flight-food-tastes-weird http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150112-why-in-flight-food-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9408563 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9408563
- freese 10y ago
  Apparently the companies making coffee for planes have (de)pressure chambers to conduct tastings.
  - Balgair 10y ago
    If that is true, they they are running incredible margins to afford that. A human sized negative pressure chamber is not any easy thing to obtain or maintain, even to airplane climates specs. Most likely, they rent out time on someone else's chamber or just take a chartered flight and test on the plane.
- Johnnybe 10y ago
  Not true, I took an Aeropress on an international flight and made fresh coffee throughout the flight. It tasted great. The hot stewardesses had no problem letting me use their hot water which was nice.
  - lazyasciiart 10y ago
    You're actually arguing that the environment of a plane doesn't have any effect on people's sense of taste because one time you totally liked your cup of coffee on a plane?
dghughes 10y ago
I make Starbucks VIA instant coffee at home and it's quite good. If I make it at work it's horrible so I'd say water quality is a big factor. At both home and work I used tap water both from the same city source. For the airplane I wonder if the water isn't getting hot enough due to lower atmospheric pressure. The flight attendant see it boiling so they assume boiling means hot but it may only be 80C not 100C. I know when I make the Starbucks VIA I make sure the water is boiling well (I live at sea level) and it's really hot otherwise it doesn't work out.

JasonSage 10y ago

I actually liked Starbucks VIA until I got violently sick off of it once. I'd probably try it again though, it was pretty darn good for instant coffee.

freese 10y ago
I agree with you here. VIA is not bad - it tastes remarkably similar to what you'd get at a Starbucks. I think it's up to everyone to determine whether that's coffee they like or not

zloof 10y ago

So I'd say look at it like a spectrum. In the cafe world there is - average/ not-so-great drip coffee --> Starbucks --> Speciality/ Third Wave Coffee. I don't know how VIA makes their product, but if you do a side-by-side taste test with Sudden vs VIA, I 100% guarantee you will notice (and prefer) Sudden. We do in fact use a pretty unique bean selection + brewing process to achieve it. Re: drying techniques - it really varies brand by brand and when you go to a store shelf in the US, most of the brands you see are spray dried, not freeze dried. In the US, you specifically have to look for brands that say 'freeze dried' and it's usually reserved for the more expensive instant coffees. Spray drying is much cheaper, but yields a lower quality product. Freeze dried coffee is a lot more common outside of the US. Even within freeze drying - we use a smaller batch freeze drying process. I've worked in large scale manufacturing before and with a smaller batch process we are able to achieve much higher quality levels. Re: beans - most coffee beans bought and sold are bought as a commodity product - think rice, beans, etc. They can literally be years old before being brewed. We have seen lots of these beans and they visibly have mold and insect damage. The beans we use are hand-picked when ripe. Much closer to picking grapes from a vineyard.

brogrammernot 10y ago
I'm not trying to be an asshole, but do you really see this company taking off? You're battling the known perception of instant coffee being awful and trying to sell a super premium product within a group that's tailored to buy cheap coffee because they just don't care. That's just a brutal uphill battle from a consumer education standpoint and a price comparison standpoint. I get that you're not trying to compare your product, which I'm sure has great quality, to the $8 jar of instant coffee but that's what the general consumer is going to do. I will openly admit, I hated coffee until I tried a fresh cup from a friend who owns his own small business roasting coffee beans and it was incredible. I truly hope you do succeed as that'll ideally allow you to run larger production runs to drive down costs to more affordable prices for everyone.
- freese 10y ago
  When I was starting to work on Sudden I knew that the biggest challenge would be around the perception of instant coffee. It's a lot of work but we have a pretty solid plan and traction right now!