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Who is to say that God and the sim operators aren't one and the same?

by ensignavenger 10y ago

mannykannot 10y ago
The sim operators would be gods. It is gods all the way up, but not the sort of gods that most religions imagine.
- ensignavenger 10y ago
  Perhaps- but most Christian sects consider God to be 'incomprehensible" or something similar- so it would not surprise them if God was different from what they imagined.
  - simonh 10y ago
    Religious believers believe certain things about god and the human-divine relationship. Anything that isn't consistent with those beliefs simply isn't god, from their perspective.
    - ensignavenger 10y ago
      I think you are painting with too broad a brush. But even within that framework, there is room to have things that one 'imagines' about God, that one doesn't necessarily 'believe' as a part of ones core beliefs about God. Certainly various religious sects have core beliefs about the human-divine relationship- however, within most belief systems, there remains a great deal of speculation and room for 'imagination'. For example, within the LDS(Mormon) sect, a core belief is that this life is a testing grounds- and a place to learn. That would fit very well within the context of this life being a simulation, of sorts.
      - mannykannot 10y ago
        But in what way would it be like the sort of simulation being discussed here?
        ensignavenger 10y ago
        Well, after starting at the posted article and going back several layers, it isn't really clear to me what sort of simulation is being discussed... only a "computer" simulation. But what sort of computer? Plenty of room to speculate. There was another aspect- the argument that we are in a simulation created by descendants of humanity to study their past- a purpose that would be hard to reconcile with most religious beliefs about the purpose of life. I was primarily replying to the idea of this life being a simulation, not so much the purpose of that simulation, though.
        mannykannot 10y ago
        I am referring to 'simulation' as used in the posted article. As for types of computer, there is fundamentally only one - Turing-equivalent machines (there is some speculation that quantum computing might have additional capabilities, but that is highly speculative, in a 'the mind is mysterious, quantum mechanics is weird, so the mind must be using as-yet unelucidated quantum phenomena' sort of way.) All this and more is discussed in this blog [1]. The word 'simulation' may have several meanings. We should beware of tacitly assuming that a metaphorical or analogical use establishes an actual correspondence. [1] http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3208 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3208
  - mannykannot 10y ago
    I don't think it is a stretch to say that all Christian sects have some definite ideas of what God is like. For some, the 'God is incomprehensible' claim is their motte in a motte-and-bailey fallacy, to which they temporarily retreat when faced with questions like "if God is omniscient, omnipotent and loving, why was there smallpox?"
    - ensignavenger 10y ago
      Sure, but within those 'definite ideas' there is usually a wide path for imagination to feel in details. See my reply to another comment for an example. If you want to have a more personal theological discussion, including a possible answer or two to the question about disease you pose above, feel free to reach out to me, my contact info can be found via my profile. :)

Who is to say that God and the sim operators aren't one and the same?

mannykannot 10y ago

The sim operators would be gods. It is gods all the way up, but not the sort of gods that most religions imagine.

ensignavenger 10y ago
Perhaps- but most Christian sects consider God to be 'incomprehensible" or something similar- so it would not surprise them if God was different from what they imagined.
- simonh 10y ago
  Religious believers believe certain things about god and the human-divine relationship. Anything that isn't consistent with those beliefs simply isn't god, from their perspective.
  - ensignavenger 10y ago
    I think you are painting with too broad a brush. But even within that framework, there is room to have things that one 'imagines' about God, that one doesn't necessarily 'believe' as a part of ones core beliefs about God. Certainly various religious sects have core beliefs about the human-divine relationship- however, within most belief systems, there remains a great deal of speculation and room for 'imagination'. For example, within the LDS(Mormon) sect, a core belief is that this life is a testing grounds- and a place to learn. That would fit very well within the context of this life being a simulation, of sorts.
    - mannykannot 10y ago
      But in what way would it be like the sort of simulation being discussed here?
      - ensignavenger 10y ago
        Well, after starting at the posted article and going back several layers, it isn't really clear to me what sort of simulation is being discussed... only a "computer" simulation. But what sort of computer? Plenty of room to speculate. There was another aspect- the argument that we are in a simulation created by descendants of humanity to study their past- a purpose that would be hard to reconcile with most religious beliefs about the purpose of life. I was primarily replying to the idea of this life being a simulation, not so much the purpose of that simulation, though.
        mannykannot 10y ago
        I am referring to 'simulation' as used in the posted article. As for types of computer, there is fundamentally only one - Turing-equivalent machines (there is some speculation that quantum computing might have additional capabilities, but that is highly speculative, in a 'the mind is mysterious, quantum mechanics is weird, so the mind must be using as-yet unelucidated quantum phenomena' sort of way.) All this and more is discussed in this blog [1]. The word 'simulation' may have several meanings. We should beware of tacitly assuming that a metaphorical or analogical use establishes an actual correspondence. [1] http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3208 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3208
- mannykannot 10y ago
  I don't think it is a stretch to say that all Christian sects have some definite ideas of what God is like. For some, the 'God is incomprehensible' claim is their motte in a motte-and-bailey fallacy, to which they temporarily retreat when faced with questions like "if God is omniscient, omnipotent and loving, why was there smallpox?"
  - ensignavenger 10y ago
    Sure, but within those 'definite ideas' there is usually a wide path for imagination to feel in details. See my reply to another comment for an example. If you want to have a more personal theological discussion, including a possible answer or two to the question about disease you pose above, feel free to reach out to me, my contact info can be found via my profile. :)