8 ms·

All of the pep talk type Youtube channels that OP mentions (Gary Vee, Mark Cuban etc), they push (IMO) a wrong idea of startups : they all say you should work 1

All of the pep talk type Youtube channels that OP mentions (Gary Vee, Mark Cuban etc), they push (IMO) a wrong idea of startups : they all say you should work 16 hours a day, bare minimum sleep, hustle and grind (god, those words make me cringe). That advice completely ignores health and general well being, which is essential if you're in it for the long haul. Anyway, this list seems interesting. Thanks OP for compiling this.

jsudhams 10y ago
Agree with this. If founder cannot make work this without loosing sleep and enough rest. 1. Can they take sound decisions? Is there any datapoint on this. i.e. List of companies gone south due to this specific type of working 2. How will they build the team with this kind of culture? 3. If they value these for themselves would they value it for employees / customers?
- paki123 10y ago
  This is a really stupid question, but all info about startups and making it in any field seems to be muddled with all this grinding bullshit, but is there any way to really succeed at any moonshot dream like a successful startup or business or athletics without "grinding" and sacrificing the now for the future? Are there examples, of hopefully non wunderkid geniuses, who succeeded by just clocking in and giving it their all? Without the help of adderall, microdosing, or any other "nootropic"?
- willholloway 10y ago
  It's not about short-term masochism, it's about focus. The human brain is non-scalable neural network.It only has so much bandwidth. The things that create/capture enough value to make big money are almost always non-trivial/hard. Market forces are the reason for that. There is a lot of competition by smart, driven people for the relatively scarce economically viable applications of technology within current market conditions. And resources will be scarce, help will be scarce, an unending line of people will either want what you have secured or want to destory you via regulation or lawsuits. Your employees will definitely not care as much as you do, and can get disgruntled and cause bad trouble. It's really best to move through the business world thinking everyone is out to get you. Only the liability paranoid survive. So for those reasons and more, if you focus on more than health + your business, you are likely to get eaten by someone else who isn't spreading his or her focus as much.
  - iamacynic 10y ago
    > It's really best to move through the business world thinking everyone is out to get you i agree, but a more useful way of thinking is that everyone is looking out for themselves, and can be expected to act exactly in that manner. you getting got is usually a side effect of someone else getting theirs through unethical means.
callmeed 10y ago
I don't think that's true. Gary Vee has said things like that in the past but more recently said he devotes weekends to family, sleeps more, and vacations more[0]. Tim Ferris literally got famous from a book titled "The 4 Hour Work-week". Mark Cuban is frankly on a different level (the 3 comma club really is different IMO). Hustle and grind are traits not mutually exclusive from being healthy. I'll go so far as to posit that most highly successful entrepreneurs (I'm talking big, high-growth companies here) end up sacrificing at least one of the following: sleep, free time, relationships, starting a family, or general health. The real question is–between the success and the sacrifice–which one causes the other? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2ShSnO72w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2ShSnO72w
- kristianc 10y ago
  Everything I've seen from GaryVee recently has been along the lines of "you're not doing enough work." Last week he told someone who took a weekend off that that was more time than he had taken off for his entire twenties. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA
  - justboxing 10y ago
    Thanks so much for this video. Not a millennial, but I got a lot out of it. Especially this part where he checks the Millennial caller with something that I too am guilty of from time to time. > So you are playing a fake narrative instead of putting in the actual work that's needed to actually pull it off. > Wishing instead of Executing.
    - deleted 10y ago
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  - tertius 10y ago
    And that's true for the vast majority of people. They're not working hard enough.
brentm 10y ago
I haven't watched that much Gary Vee but from what I've seen he is at times informative & entertaining but mostly cringe worthy. He is a little too high on his own supply for me.
AshWills 10y ago
Having consumed a lot of GV's content, I disagree with your comment. Whilst I do not agree with working unhealthy hours and working on minimum sleep, GV doesn't explicitly advise people to do that. He preaches that if you're unhappy doing what you're currently doing, you have to work hard to change that, rather than sitting on "ideas" and never doing anything about them and living with "what if". Gary himself may work long hours on minimum sleep but he has always said he is wired differently to many people and that sort of lifestyle isn't sustainable for most. However, I do agree that the list is interesting, there's some good content I haven't come across before which is always nice to find; thanks OP!
cmahler7 10y ago
the hustle stuff normally makes me cringe, but once I heard Gary V's logic it made more sense. Basically he says that he can't go and tell people to get more talent, so in his mind the only way to get better results is to work more. Whether working more will actually help is debatable.
lathiat 10y ago
Firstly, I think it's easy to confuse the two narratives of not doing enough work and working too much. From most of the GaryVee content I watched recently the general feeling I took away is that many people are looking for the "quick fix" when really they just need to put in the hours. Not necessarily unhealthy hours, but hard hours never the less. And that they just need to do, and not think or plan in many cases. Try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA Secondly, personally I found it really enlightening watching Casey Neistat's youtube VLOGs to see when he was very intentionally carving out time for family, and other things like running. You would see him intentionally rush home so that he could spend an hour with his baby daughter before she went to sleep - even if he had to go back out to work afterwards. Of course, that's easier than it might be for some when you can ride a skateboard home from work in 10 minutes and a similar time to where his Wife works (he would carve out date time etc as well in the middle of the day). Never the less I thought it was good to see the very intentional time carving, especially from someone clearly so busy and juggling a lot of priorities (starting a company, a daily vlog, a new baby/family and a personal life). Despite all of that, it certainly was having impact on his life but it seemed clear to me the impact would have been much worse for some people not taking that very intentional and active effort to carve out time for these things.

jsudhams 10y ago

Agree with this. If founder cannot make work this without loosing sleep and enough rest. 1. Can they take sound decisions? Is there any datapoint on this. i.e. List of companies gone south due to this specific type of working 2. How will they build the team with this kind of culture? 3. If they value these for themselves would they value it for employees / customers?

paki123 10y ago
This is a really stupid question, but all info about startups and making it in any field seems to be muddled with all this grinding bullshit, but is there any way to really succeed at any moonshot dream like a successful startup or business or athletics without "grinding" and sacrificing the now for the future? Are there examples, of hopefully non wunderkid geniuses, who succeeded by just clocking in and giving it their all? Without the help of adderall, microdosing, or any other "nootropic"?
willholloway 10y ago
It's not about short-term masochism, it's about focus. The human brain is non-scalable neural network.It only has so much bandwidth. The things that create/capture enough value to make big money are almost always non-trivial/hard. Market forces are the reason for that. There is a lot of competition by smart, driven people for the relatively scarce economically viable applications of technology within current market conditions. And resources will be scarce, help will be scarce, an unending line of people will either want what you have secured or want to destory you via regulation or lawsuits. Your employees will definitely not care as much as you do, and can get disgruntled and cause bad trouble. It's really best to move through the business world thinking everyone is out to get you. Only the liability paranoid survive. So for those reasons and more, if you focus on more than health + your business, you are likely to get eaten by someone else who isn't spreading his or her focus as much.
- iamacynic 10y ago
  > It's really best to move through the business world thinking everyone is out to get you i agree, but a more useful way of thinking is that everyone is looking out for themselves, and can be expected to act exactly in that manner. you getting got is usually a side effect of someone else getting theirs through unethical means.

callmeed 10y ago

I don't think that's true. Gary Vee has said things like that in the past but more recently said he devotes weekends to family, sleeps more, and vacations more[0]. Tim Ferris literally got famous from a book titled "The 4 Hour Work-week". Mark Cuban is frankly on a different level (the 3 comma club really is different IMO). Hustle and grind are traits not mutually exclusive from being healthy. I'll go so far as to posit that most highly successful entrepreneurs (I'm talking big, high-growth companies here) end up sacrificing at least one of the following: sleep, free time, relationships, starting a family, or general health. The real question is–between the success and the sacrifice–which one causes the other? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2ShSnO72w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2ShSnO72w

kristianc 10y ago
Everything I've seen from GaryVee recently has been along the lines of "you're not doing enough work." Last week he told someone who took a weekend off that that was more time than he had taken off for his entire twenties. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA
- justboxing 10y ago
  Thanks so much for this video. Not a millennial, but I got a lot out of it. Especially this part where he checks the Millennial caller with something that I too am guilty of from time to time. > So you are playing a fake narrative instead of putting in the actual work that's needed to actually pull it off. > Wishing instead of Executing.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tertius 10y ago
  And that's true for the vast majority of people. They're not working hard enough.

brentm 10y ago

I haven't watched that much Gary Vee but from what I've seen he is at times informative & entertaining but mostly cringe worthy. He is a little too high on his own supply for me.

AshWills 10y ago

Having consumed a lot of GV's content, I disagree with your comment. Whilst I do not agree with working unhealthy hours and working on minimum sleep, GV doesn't explicitly advise people to do that. He preaches that if you're unhappy doing what you're currently doing, you have to work hard to change that, rather than sitting on "ideas" and never doing anything about them and living with "what if". Gary himself may work long hours on minimum sleep but he has always said he is wired differently to many people and that sort of lifestyle isn't sustainable for most. However, I do agree that the list is interesting, there's some good content I haven't come across before which is always nice to find; thanks OP!

cmahler7 10y ago

the hustle stuff normally makes me cringe, but once I heard Gary V's logic it made more sense. Basically he says that he can't go and tell people to get more talent, so in his mind the only way to get better results is to work more. Whether working more will actually help is debatable.

lathiat 10y ago

Firstly, I think it's easy to confuse the two narratives of not doing enough work and working too much. From most of the GaryVee content I watched recently the general feeling I took away is that many people are looking for the "quick fix" when really they just need to put in the hours. Not necessarily unhealthy hours, but hard hours never the less. And that they just need to do, and not think or plan in many cases. Try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRj144Gd7EA Secondly, personally I found it really enlightening watching Casey Neistat's youtube VLOGs to see when he was very intentionally carving out time for family, and other things like running. You would see him intentionally rush home so that he could spend an hour with his baby daughter before she went to sleep - even if he had to go back out to work afterwards. Of course, that's easier than it might be for some when you can ride a skateboard home from work in 10 minutes and a similar time to where his Wife works (he would carve out date time etc as well in the middle of the day). Never the less I thought it was good to see the very intentional time carving, especially from someone clearly so busy and juggling a lot of priorities (starting a company, a daily vlog, a new baby/family and a personal life). Despite all of that, it certainly was having impact on his life but it seemed clear to me the impact would have been much worse for some people not taking that very intentional and active effort to carve out time for these things.