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Seems like a great opportunity for Kubota. Or some other tractor company. Or I guess a "startup" that makes tractors though I wonder what the time to market o

Seems like a great opportunity for Kubota. Or some other tractor company. Or I guess a "startup" that makes tractors though I wonder what the time to market on that would be.

gcb0 10y ago
since all manufacturers just assemble readily available parts , time to market will probably be less than software. you'd be surprised how many common parts are in a ford and bmw. Mostly exterior and dashboard are trade secrets today.
- weberc2 10y ago
  While John Deere does buy OEM parts, it designs and builds a lot of stuff in house, including engines. It owns and operates foundries and it even designs its own embedded computers (and writes the firmware, operating system, CAN drivers, and application software). It probably takes longer to prepare the factory for a new model-year build of an existing tractor than it takes some software vendors to get an MVP to market. There's lots of inefficiency there, but it's not likely a startup will be disrupting this industry anytime soon (and if they do, it will look more like fleets of small, simple, semi-autonomous drone tractors than conventional equipment).
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    I'm assuming you mean a metal foundry and not a semiconductor foundry? Still, the fact that they build their engines in-house is pretty impressive. I believe that many auto makers purchase their engines instead of designing then in-house because they are so complex to get right.
    - weberc2 10y ago
      Both. They've operated their own foundries for longer than I've been alive; probably closer to a century. They've since purchased at least one semiconductor company to design and manufacture some of their electronics. And yes, John Deere has built its own engines for a long time; the division is called Power Systems or JDPS, and they build engines in factories all over the world, and they sell their engines to other equipment manufacturers as well.
      - throwaway40483 10y ago
        I highly doubt that John Deere operates any semiconductor foundries. Those foundries aren't your normal run of the mill factories. They are $10B monsters just to get started.
        Cyph0n 10y ago
        They could have a fab operating at a lower process node for manufacturing microcontrollers, but I also think that it's not likely.
        weberc2 10y ago
        http://www.manta.com/c/mm3k9t4/phoenix-international-a-john-deere-company http://www.manta.com/c/mm3k9t4/phoenix-international-a-john-...
        Cyph0n 10y ago
        Looks like standard electronics manufacturing; nothing state-of-the-art. It's still interesting that they chose to design and manufacture it all in-house.
        weberc2 10y ago
        I didn't mean to imply that it was in some way non-standard or state-of-the-art; only that they do, in fact, manufacture some of their electronics in-house.
        Arizhel 10y ago
        I don't see any evidence there that they manufacture semiconductors, only electronics. Manufacturing electronics isn't that hard, depending on what exactly you're doing. Assembling printed circuit boards from components is something you can even do by hand in most cases, and automated assembly equipment isn't really that expensive to set up a small factory, depending on the volume required (small-volume stuff isn't that expensive, high-volume high-speed stuff is more so). Manufacturing semiconductors is something else altogether, and isn't something you can do in a small warehouse with a few hundred $K of equipment; it requires very specialized buildings and equipment.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      >I believe that many auto makers purchase their engines instead of designing then in-house because they are so complex to get right. Citation needed. Engines are one thing the automakers tend to hold onto and not outsource often. There are exceptions, and there's cases of them licensing specific engine tech from each other (like with Toyota's Prius drivetrain). For instance, Mazda has a prototype car where they paired their 2.0L "SkyActiv" gas engine with Toyota's hybrid transmission/motor from the Prius. There's also cases of them doing joint ventures, like when Mitsubishi and Chrysler formed "Diamond Star Motors" back in the 80s/90s, or with the more recent Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S where Subaru makes the engine/drivetrain/suspension and Toyota makes the body (I think). The only cases I can think of offhand where automakers simply drop in a purchased engine are with diesel pickups, such as Dodge using Cummins engines. Oh, there was also the Ford Taurus SHO with a Yamaha engine, but that was way back in the late 80s and Yamaha isn't exactly known as a serious engine-builder these days.
  - gcb0 10y ago
    so? they probably sell parts to competitors and vice versa. for example, a Chrysler pt Cruiser have a engine designed by bmw, made in Brazil and Mexico on foundries owned by Volkswagen. that's an extreme example, but hope this gives the idea to the downvote army.
    - weberc2 10y ago
      > so? Why are you confused? You said "all manufacturers just assemble readily available parts". I demonstrated that this is not the case for John Deere (or probably any other automotive manufacturer), which builds many of its own components and writes much of its own software in-house.
vvanders 10y ago
If you think the capital costs for Tesla are bad try getting into a smaller market where tractors start at ~$150k. Kubota has been trying to go upmarket but it's not something that can be done overnight. I'd be more curious if some of the other players(NH, Case IH, Claas, etc) could use this to their advantage. You see similar things in the CUT(Compact Utility Tractor) segment where LS/Kioti/Mahindra generally offer much more capabilities/features over Kubota and JD.
- unmole 10y ago
  > Mahindra I had no idea Mahindraactually had a presence in the US. Can you tell me how they are generally regarded?
  - sglane 10y ago
    >Can you tell me how they are generally regarded? Below JD/Kubota/NH, above LS/Kioti.
  - officelineback 10y ago
    I want to say they sponsored a NASCAR or Indycar race.
- scotch_drinker 10y ago
  Yeah this thought occurred to me as well. If I ran one of the other companies, I'd make it a marketing issue that we let farmer's hack all they want on their own tractors.

Seems like a great opportunity for Kubota. Or some other tractor company. Or I guess a "startup" that makes tractors though I wonder what the time to market on that would be.

gcb0 10y ago

since all manufacturers just assemble readily available parts , time to market will probably be less than software. you'd be surprised how many common parts are in a ford and bmw. Mostly exterior and dashboard are trade secrets today.

weberc2 10y ago
While John Deere does buy OEM parts, it designs and builds a lot of stuff in house, including engines. It owns and operates foundries and it even designs its own embedded computers (and writes the firmware, operating system, CAN drivers, and application software). It probably takes longer to prepare the factory for a new model-year build of an existing tractor than it takes some software vendors to get an MVP to market. There's lots of inefficiency there, but it's not likely a startup will be disrupting this industry anytime soon (and if they do, it will look more like fleets of small, simple, semi-autonomous drone tractors than conventional equipment).
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  I'm assuming you mean a metal foundry and not a semiconductor foundry? Still, the fact that they build their engines in-house is pretty impressive. I believe that many auto makers purchase their engines instead of designing then in-house because they are so complex to get right.
  - weberc2 10y ago
    Both. They've operated their own foundries for longer than I've been alive; probably closer to a century. They've since purchased at least one semiconductor company to design and manufacture some of their electronics. And yes, John Deere has built its own engines for a long time; the division is called Power Systems or JDPS, and they build engines in factories all over the world, and they sell their engines to other equipment manufacturers as well.
    - throwaway40483 10y ago
      I highly doubt that John Deere operates any semiconductor foundries. Those foundries aren't your normal run of the mill factories. They are $10B monsters just to get started.
      - Cyph0n 10y ago
        They could have a fab operating at a lower process node for manufacturing microcontrollers, but I also think that it's not likely.
        weberc2 10y ago
        http://www.manta.com/c/mm3k9t4/phoenix-international-a-john-deere-company http://www.manta.com/c/mm3k9t4/phoenix-international-a-john-...
        Cyph0n 10y ago
        Looks like standard electronics manufacturing; nothing state-of-the-art. It's still interesting that they chose to design and manufacture it all in-house.
        weberc2 10y ago
        I didn't mean to imply that it was in some way non-standard or state-of-the-art; only that they do, in fact, manufacture some of their electronics in-house.
        Arizhel 10y ago
        I don't see any evidence there that they manufacture semiconductors, only electronics. Manufacturing electronics isn't that hard, depending on what exactly you're doing. Assembling printed circuit boards from components is something you can even do by hand in most cases, and automated assembly equipment isn't really that expensive to set up a small factory, depending on the volume required (small-volume stuff isn't that expensive, high-volume high-speed stuff is more so). Manufacturing semiconductors is something else altogether, and isn't something you can do in a small warehouse with a few hundred $K of equipment; it requires very specialized buildings and equipment.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    >I believe that many auto makers purchase their engines instead of designing then in-house because they are so complex to get right. Citation needed. Engines are one thing the automakers tend to hold onto and not outsource often. There are exceptions, and there's cases of them licensing specific engine tech from each other (like with Toyota's Prius drivetrain). For instance, Mazda has a prototype car where they paired their 2.0L "SkyActiv" gas engine with Toyota's hybrid transmission/motor from the Prius. There's also cases of them doing joint ventures, like when Mitsubishi and Chrysler formed "Diamond Star Motors" back in the 80s/90s, or with the more recent Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S where Subaru makes the engine/drivetrain/suspension and Toyota makes the body (I think). The only cases I can think of offhand where automakers simply drop in a purchased engine are with diesel pickups, such as Dodge using Cummins engines. Oh, there was also the Ford Taurus SHO with a Yamaha engine, but that was way back in the late 80s and Yamaha isn't exactly known as a serious engine-builder these days.
- gcb0 10y ago
  so? they probably sell parts to competitors and vice versa. for example, a Chrysler pt Cruiser have a engine designed by bmw, made in Brazil and Mexico on foundries owned by Volkswagen. that's an extreme example, but hope this gives the idea to the downvote army.
  - weberc2 10y ago
    > so? Why are you confused? You said "all manufacturers just assemble readily available parts". I demonstrated that this is not the case for John Deere (or probably any other automotive manufacturer), which builds many of its own components and writes much of its own software in-house.

vvanders 10y ago

If you think the capital costs for Tesla are bad try getting into a smaller market where tractors start at ~$150k. Kubota has been trying to go upmarket but it's not something that can be done overnight. I'd be more curious if some of the other players(NH, Case IH, Claas, etc) could use this to their advantage. You see similar things in the CUT(Compact Utility Tractor) segment where LS/Kioti/Mahindra generally offer much more capabilities/features over Kubota and JD.

unmole 10y ago
> Mahindra I had no idea Mahindraactually had a presence in the US. Can you tell me how they are generally regarded?
- sglane 10y ago
  >Can you tell me how they are generally regarded? Below JD/Kubota/NH, above LS/Kioti.
- officelineback 10y ago
  I want to say they sponsored a NASCAR or Indycar race.
scotch_drinker 10y ago
Yeah this thought occurred to me as well. If I ran one of the other companies, I'd make it a marketing issue that we let farmer's hack all they want on their own tractors.