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>Capitalist firms employ people, who support families. The feudal lord supports families by giving them a place to live while the workers pay tribute with the

by ue_ 10y ago

>Capitalist firms employ people, who support families. The feudal lord supports families by giving them a place to live while the workers pay tribute with the fruit of their labour. The idea that the workers ought to be grateful for being exploited is, in my opinion, silly. Capitalist firms pay for the labour-time, which includes the cost of (i) the worker staying in the work force (ii) the worker "recharging" with a moderate amount of sleep and entertainment (iii) the worker adding more to the workforce via reproduction, so the children are also paid for. The worker is an expense, the family is an expense. The family is an expense because if it was not paid for, the workers could not work or the supply of workers becomes more scarce. So yes, while the capitalist firm may employ people who provide for the family, so does the slave owner, for the purpose of future slaves. And as soon as the worker is not profitable, what happens to that support for the family? It disappears. So the merits are thus: people are kept in servitude by virtue of their status of being a worker, with just enough income to pay to replenish the work force and stay motivated. That's the merits of the capitalist firm. Edit: if the downvoters would like to ask questions or respond, it would be nice to know where I'm going wrong, thanks :)

cmdrfred 10y ago
You seem to not be a fan of capitalism. Do you live in China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos or North Korea? If not, why not?
- ue_ 10y ago
  >China, Cuba, Vietnam These are capitalist countries, in which wage labour is the primary way by which workers sustain themselves; property is privately owned (and yes, the government can privately own property). >North Korea North Korea is an ethno-nationalist dictatorship run by a hereditary monarchy. What's your point?
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    Others disagree with your sentiment: http://www.thenewstrack.com/top-5-communist-countries-in-the-world/ http://www.thenewstrack.com/top-5-communist-countries-in-the... Where is an example of a good system then?
    - ue_ 10y ago
      People disagreeing with me does not mean that I'm wrong. Communism is defined as a stateless, classless and monelyess and anarchistic society in which peolpe are not paid with wages for work. Even in Socialism, the means of production are owned by the workers. None of the countries in this post have either of these qualities. However they all exhibit the fundamental properties of capitalism: the primacy of wage labour, private ownership of capital and the means of production, and production is for exchange value to be maximised over use value. I am an anarcho-Communist. I believe in the demolishing of the state and all unjustified hierarchical relations, including but not limited to the government and the bourgeoisie, to advance toward a society in which the means of production are collectively owned by the workers. Distributed networks of councils of workers, each of which implementing direct democracy to decide what is made and in what quantity. The workers take home the products of their labour, or agree to have them distributed to those who are unable to work, again via direct democracy. My system is the abolishment of exploitation of the workers and with it the system of oppression aided by capitalism's power structures, including misogyny, racism, homophobia etc.
      - cmdrfred 10y ago
        Anarchism - belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion. Communism - a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. If there is no government, who distributes things based on needs? Why don't I just kill you and take everything you own? Communism is total government, Anarchism is no government. Its oil and water.
        rblatz 10y ago
        That why it's the best system to support in Internet forums! You can just pick the parts from each that work for the argument you are making. Since they are polar opposites you have a lot of ground to pick ideals from. Thus winning the argument.

by ue_ 10y ago

cmdrfred 10y ago

You seem to not be a fan of capitalism. Do you live in China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos or North Korea? If not, why not?

ue_ 10y ago
>China, Cuba, Vietnam These are capitalist countries, in which wage labour is the primary way by which workers sustain themselves; property is privately owned (and yes, the government can privately own property). >North Korea North Korea is an ethno-nationalist dictatorship run by a hereditary monarchy. What's your point?
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  Others disagree with your sentiment: http://www.thenewstrack.com/top-5-communist-countries-in-the-world/ http://www.thenewstrack.com/top-5-communist-countries-in-the... Where is an example of a good system then?
  - ue_ 10y ago
    People disagreeing with me does not mean that I'm wrong. Communism is defined as a stateless, classless and monelyess and anarchistic society in which peolpe are not paid with wages for work. Even in Socialism, the means of production are owned by the workers. None of the countries in this post have either of these qualities. However they all exhibit the fundamental properties of capitalism: the primacy of wage labour, private ownership of capital and the means of production, and production is for exchange value to be maximised over use value. I am an anarcho-Communist. I believe in the demolishing of the state and all unjustified hierarchical relations, including but not limited to the government and the bourgeoisie, to advance toward a society in which the means of production are collectively owned by the workers. Distributed networks of councils of workers, each of which implementing direct democracy to decide what is made and in what quantity. The workers take home the products of their labour, or agree to have them distributed to those who are unable to work, again via direct democracy. My system is the abolishment of exploitation of the workers and with it the system of oppression aided by capitalism's power structures, including misogyny, racism, homophobia etc.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      Anarchism - belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion. Communism - a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. If there is no government, who distributes things based on needs? Why don't I just kill you and take everything you own? Communism is total government, Anarchism is no government. Its oil and water.
      - rblatz 10y ago
        That why it's the best system to support in Internet forums! You can just pick the parts from each that work for the argument you are making. Since they are polar opposites you have a lot of ground to pick ideals from. Thus winning the argument.