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UK to follow US flight ban on laptops
- Radle 10y agoWHY?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- elthran 10y agoI think we have 2 plausible options: 1) UK trying to curry favour with the USG 2) There's some concrete intelligence here, which is being shared and acted on
- tomtoise 10y ago3) as mentioned in the US version of this thread, to make it easier to intercept and search electronic devices. I'll find a link to the comment. E. Top comment, that was easy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13919760
- LordWinstanley 10y agoYou forget option 3, which is nearly always the case: 3) US says jump. UK says "how high"?
- HalfwayToDice 10y agocringe
- kijeda 10y agoPossibly a thinly veiled way of getting back at gulf state airlines for their business model? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/03/21/trump-wont-allow-you-to-use-ipads-or-laptops-on-certain-airlines-heres-the-underlying-story/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/03/2...
- fredley 10y agoIsn't this the business model of all national airlines?
- mattnewton 10y agoOur national airlines don't use the Middle East as a hub.
- rocky1138 10y ago0. They probably know of a specific attack that we don't, thanks to intelligence gathering. 1. It's much easier to install rootkits on devices when it's in checked baggage.
- NamTaf 10y agoWhat stops someone flying via a third country? Am I missing some logic here?
- sampo 10y agoIf you want pure speculation: Perhaps you don't trust airport security in those countries to properly check the laptops, but you trust the airport security in third countries.
- lb1lf 10y agoWhy would anyone do that? It would be against the rules. Gotta follow the rules. /s On a somewhat serious note - presumably your itinerary would light up like a Christmas tree somewhere. Unless, of course, you swap identities en route. That would be against the rules, though. Also, in fairness, it may be that they have very credible intelligence that someone is planning mischief using a specific carrier or airport.
- tzs 10y agoWould travel via a third country actually raise any alarms? Surely it is common for people traveling for international business to visit their offices, customers, or suppliers in multiple places during one trip, so a business person traveling from Saudi Arabia, say, to New York, with a week in Munich in the middle would not be unusual.
- Gys 10y agoDirect flights are generally more expensive. So having one or two stops, more or less on your way, makes perfect sense.
- lb1lf 10y agoAh, mea culpa. I suddenly realized that the ban doesn't affect flights on the named airlines NOT ending up in the US. D'oh. However, if I were the TSA and I were serious, I'd just require that you surrender your laptop at the start of the leg terminating in the US - as you started off in a place they obviously have a grudge against, &c. (That would require you to book two separate tickets, if nothing else.)
- no1youknowz 10y agoNever mind.
- chinathrow 10y agoMy guess is that the rest of Europe/EASA will follow the US/UK rules very soon on this one. The risk of an in-flight cargo fire went considerably up btw: http://avherald.com/h?article=4a67fce7&opt=0 http://avherald.com/h?article=4a67fce7&opt=0
- RodericDay 10y agoIt's funny that there's such furor about Russia influencing American policy, while statements like "Europe will follow the US/UK rules very soon" are just casual factual commentary.
- chinathrow 10y agoIt's not a casual factual comment - it is a guess on my end, clearly stated but you left that out in your quotation.
- anon23-0895 10y agoSo does this mean the UK is also racist and fascist or are we allowed to accept this as a security measure? If its still racist which country adopting a policy like this will turn it from unacceptable to acceptable.
- fredley 10y agoThe UK is on the cusp of committing economic suicide, or at least crippling itself for decades. It needs all the friends it can get. I imagine this is a measure to cosy up to the US, in full knowledge that it is an unhinged administration, in the hope of getting a good trade deal out of it once we cease trading as part of the bloc.
- samdoidge 10y agoFar from economic suicide. Based on the trade deficit [1], I doubt the EU can survive giving the UK a punitive trade deal. This is a great opportunity for the UK [2]. [1] https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/Trade%20deficit%20and%20surplus%20graph_fIMtaMJ.png https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/Trade%20deficit%20and%20s... [2] https://econsnapshot.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/gdp-us-eu17-japan-brics-2014-11-26.png https://econsnapshot.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/gdp-us-eu17...
- no1youknowz 10y ago> The UK is on the cusp of committing economic suicide, or at least crippling itself for decades. No. Here's why. The UK can control it's currency and maintain a clear direction. The EU can't do that. The Euro favors some countries. The UK can have bi-lateral trade deals that is best for her with all countries around the world[1]. The EU can't do that, it has to consider ALL countries best interests within the Block. The UK can change it's business rates to be more competitive than the EU [2]. The EU can't really do that, lest it risk some states losing money. In short. The UK is in an excellent position for growth. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/07/uk-g7-economy-trade-pwc-brexit-us https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/07/uk-g7-econo... [2]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/21/theresa-may-to-offer-business-an-olive-branch-with-hint-of-futur/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/21/theresa-may-to-of... I'm actually rather bullish about the UK. Remember, when the UK had trade deals with countries around the world? We'll have that time again.
- chinathrow 10y agoWhat is your threat model regarding your laptop when you travel internationally? I used to have my laptop with me 100% of the time while travelling by airline - I guess that will change soon...
- tzs 10y agoMy guess is that the purpose of this is intelligence gathering (assuming that it is security related at all, as opposed to being retaliation against unfair competition by state subsidized airlines as some have speculated). Perhaps something like this: 1. Some international criminal group has been under surveillance. Security agencies know quite a bit more about the group than the group thinks they do. 2. Security agencies do not have much information on the membership and organization of the group within the United States. 3. There is some good reason to believe that the group is about to undertake some major action, such as a terrorist attack, in the United States, and that a specific known officer of the organization will be traveling to the US to direct the attack. 4. Security agencies want to get some alone time with something that traveler will take with him when meeting with his comrades in the US, so they can install spying equipment like a listening device, a tracking device, a key logger if the device has a keyboard, and so on. They want this so that they can get information about the organization's US membership. 5. They don't want to do anything that would tip off the organization that their officer has been targeted. Hence, they need to cover up doctoring his electronics by making it appear that it is part of a very broad operation. This restriction on electronics fits this well. Checked electronics will spend lots of time away from the owner, giving plenty of time to doctor it.
- ouid 10y agoTo be fair, a laptop battery contains as much energy as a small grenade. I think the fact that no terrorist organization has exploited this really speaks volumes of their lack of resources, and the effectiveness of alternative security measures.
- dv_dt 10y agoAren't they then just as dangerous in the cargo compartment in checked luggage?
- peterwwillis 10y agoNot as dangerous by itself as you can't just hold it up to a window or wall. But possibly more so, because you can also pack liquid explosives, flash paper, carbon-packed clothing, compressed gases, etc in checked luggage.
- electic 10y agoIt is. You can find a list of crashes because of a fire in the cargo hold here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incident... Search for "cargo hold" to see the number of planes that have gone down due to an event in the cargo hold. This ban is simple, it is to hurt DBX air carriers which EU and US air carriers have complained about for a long time. DBX based air carriers have newer planes, better service, better food, and shorter legs. This eats into first class and business class revenue of major EU and US carriers.
- adamjc 10y agoMore countries on this list will follow, it's how these things always start. Target 'dangerous' countries first, ones that the public won't speak out much about, then keep adding to it.
- peterwwillis 10y agoIf this was an attempt to avoid large batteries used in attacks, you could just bring 10 cellphones with you, or have 10 people on the plane bring several cellphones or something. This is about bureaucrats covering their asses, not actual safety. If you think this is somehow a good idea, require your government to mandate the airlines to provide a reliable, free method to store your electronics that does not involve paying to check a bag (because you don't have to pay to bring a laptop today, so there is no reason to gouge customers now). If you don't demand specific changes they will think you're a push-over and never change the policies.
- kyriakos 10y agoIf you go looking for ways there's an infinite number. The problem is where you draw the line and accept the risk. Banning everything technically is what makes terrorism effective. The greatest terrorist purpose is for us and our governments to be afraid of everything and everyone.
- colinbartlett 10y agoThe one and only time I have ever checked a laptop in my bag, it was destroyed by the TSA. My bag was opened and my carefully packed and padded laptop was placed on top of my clothes in my soft-sided luggage with a note on top saying my bag had been inspect. The screen was completely smashed upon arrival. What are my alternatives now? Can I overnight my laptop via FedEx or something?
- loeg 10y ago> What are my alternatives now? Buy a hard-sided bag for checking your laptop?
- TezlaKoil 10y ago> Buy a hard-sided bag for checking your laptop? Think before you write? A hard case makes zero difference (or in some cases actively makes things worse) if the TSA fails to secure your laptop after inspecting it.
- dTal 10y agoSimilar thing happened to me. I had a lot of computing equipment to carry, including a desktop LCD screen, and it only just barely fit in the hard case. Took what felt like hours of fiddling and rearranging to get it to close. Of course, with all that electronics the case was searched, and of course the TSA didn't spend hours fiddling and rearranging - they'd obviously just jumped on it until it latched, crushing the screen.
- laaph 10y agoSame here. It wasn't inspected, what ever extreme handling they did, all the packing I had for it did not allow it to survive, and it had a cracked case and something else no longer allowing it to turn on (it was a long time ago, I no longer remember the details nor have the laptop). I think this will heavily curtail travel to the US.
- HaloZero 10y agoI really don't understand why certain airlines (almost exclusively Middle Eastern based ones) are affected but American and other airlines are not. If laptops are a risk, what makes someone stop them from taking a United flight vs Emirates?
- mattnewton 10y agoThat's the key to understanding this. Makes less and less sense as a security measure, maybe it makes sense as an economic measure directed at middle eastern airlines?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- pitt1980 10y agofwiw http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35521646 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35521646 a laptop bomb blew a hole in a Somali plane last year
- mattnewton 10y agoThat's good to know, but I don't see how this stops them doing it from other countries? Maybe it is just to make it a little bit harder to do?
- pitt1980 10y agoI don't really know, it might be a function of them having better confidence in the screening of people on watch lists in other countries or it might truly be security theater or maybe it is economically motivated the people who make these decision are working with non-public data, so its hard to know
- PleaseHelpMe 10y agoJust because you depart from a country doesn't mean your laptop is dangerous. Moreover, up til now there hasn't any paper or statistics claiming laptops are dangerous on flights. I am sure they are trying to hide the discrimination that lies underneath the ban.
- loeg 10y agoIs this (well, the US half of this, not the UK adopting it as well) just an indirect way to enact Trump's "muslim ban" executive order? Make 14hr flights much more boring and fewer people from the originating countries will fly to the US?
- mdekkers 10y agoUS officials said bombs could be hidden in a series of devices. Bullshit. If an effective explosive could be hidden, they would be banned from all planes, from everywhere, period. Not in the hold, not in the cabin, not even anywhere close to an airport. Also, technical staff working on any airport anywhere would be banned from bringing these devices anywhere airside. This is such a load of rubbish.
- secult 10y agoBan of large electronics in the hand luggage and recommendation to not put fragile electronics in the checked-in luggage may result in quite unexpected passenger behavior.