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In this alternative solution, the government does your taxes, so instead of paying a company/accountant to do it, our taxes / the deficit will pay for it. Someo

In this alternative solution, the government does your taxes, so instead of paying a company/accountant to do it, our taxes / the deficit will pay for it. Someone has to do the work, and if it's not these companies, it will be the IRS. I'd be in favor of simplifying the tax code so everyone could file their own return with confidence!

yellow_postit 10y ago
I think this is a false equivalence. The IRS is already "doing taxes" for most people when they get their paystub and investment data electronically sent by those institutions and using that to compare against the self-willed returns. If anything for many individuals (not self-employed, minimal investments, basic mortgage) this plan would reduce overhead.
- gdulli 10y ago
  In theory, the goal of the government is to maximize your amount of tax paid while the goal of professional tax preparation is to minimize it. (In order to compete with other services.) In practice, I don't know whether there ends up being a net benefit to taxpayers or not in the current setup.
  - yellow_postit 10y ago
    Outside of extreme wealth cases it appears that many "bulk" prepares operate on a volume business where turnover and automation is the focus. Given sufficient transparency and a way to manually file a return if you disagree with the auto-return (like in the UK) then I believe the efficiency problem you point out would be addressed.
  - loeg 10y ago
    Also: private filing via tax prep firm would remain an option.
maxerickson 10y ago
The IRS already has the infrastructure to do it. For simple returns they also have all the necessary information whether a return is filed or not. So we can do both. Simplify the tax code and send a lot of people a post card summarizing their tax year. If the summary is wrong or not advantageous, they can file an amended return.
- petters 10y ago
  This is how it works in Sweden. Most people just approve their "post card." Everything is done online.
frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
Many peoples taxes are basically automatic. The government's cost to do these is basically negligible.
raverbashing 10y ago
There's nothing to be done if you have only one job and no deductions to file. Your taxes have already been taken out by payroll. Making the forms easier is certainly an important consideration.
mikeash 10y ago
The work is already being done. Try putting some incorrect numbers into your tax return this year. Sometime after you file, you'll probably get a letter informing you of the mistake, telling you how much your actual tax liability differs from what you filed, and either a check or a bill for the difference.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  That's exactly it. The IRS would just tell you what they already know.
- gpawl 10y ago
  IRS checks your math and makes sure all the reports (your copy vs employer/bank/vendor copy) match. They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take.
  - sedachv 10y ago
    > They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take. They will for the most basic personal deductions. I have gotten a correction on a 1040EZ where my deduction was corrected upwards and the refund increased. It is impossible for the IRS or your tax preparer to know things like what kind of automobile deductions you can take for your sole-proprietorship business. This is an impossible problem to solve - every change to the deductions allowed is going to make some people pay taxes on what should be business expenses/losses and/or allow other people to claim legal-but-bogus or just plain fraudulent deductions.
M_Grey 10y ago
Edited by poster to conform with rules When you consider that your argument seems to be that we should ignore the efficiencies of scale and the removal of a pointless profit margin, because it won't be absolutely free.
- dang 10y ago
  Insinuations of shillage without evidence are not allowed here, so please don't do this. Someone expressing an opposing view does not count as evidence. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&date...
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    I apologize, and won't do it again. Is there any way to report something like this?
    - dang 10y ago
      Sure, you can flag the comment and/or email us at hn@ycombinator.com.
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, and follow the rules.
hx87 10y ago
The IRS already does the work. How do you think they validate your tax returns?
ceejayoz 10y ago
The IRS already does your taxes, in parallel. If you forget something that was reported to them or make a math error, they'll take it out of your return and send you a letter.
mcherm 10y ago
Simplifying the tax code is a great idea. But it is DIFFERENT than allowing the IRS to pre-fill tax forms for people. Many people (although, due to our current complex tax code, not everyone) would be able to use these pre-filled forms and file taxes free for no effort. We shouldn't miss out on THAT opportunity just to chase tax simplification: we should do both!

yellow_postit 10y ago

I think this is a false equivalence. The IRS is already "doing taxes" for most people when they get their paystub and investment data electronically sent by those institutions and using that to compare against the self-willed returns. If anything for many individuals (not self-employed, minimal investments, basic mortgage) this plan would reduce overhead.

gdulli 10y ago
In theory, the goal of the government is to maximize your amount of tax paid while the goal of professional tax preparation is to minimize it. (In order to compete with other services.) In practice, I don't know whether there ends up being a net benefit to taxpayers or not in the current setup.
- yellow_postit 10y ago
  Outside of extreme wealth cases it appears that many "bulk" prepares operate on a volume business where turnover and automation is the focus. Given sufficient transparency and a way to manually file a return if you disagree with the auto-return (like in the UK) then I believe the efficiency problem you point out would be addressed.
- loeg 10y ago
  Also: private filing via tax prep firm would remain an option.

maxerickson 10y ago

The IRS already has the infrastructure to do it. For simple returns they also have all the necessary information whether a return is filed or not. So we can do both. Simplify the tax code and send a lot of people a post card summarizing their tax year. If the summary is wrong or not advantageous, they can file an amended return.

petters 10y ago
This is how it works in Sweden. Most people just approve their "post card." Everything is done online.

frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago

Many peoples taxes are basically automatic. The government's cost to do these is basically negligible.

raverbashing 10y ago

There's nothing to be done if you have only one job and no deductions to file. Your taxes have already been taken out by payroll. Making the forms easier is certainly an important consideration.

mikeash 10y ago

The work is already being done. Try putting some incorrect numbers into your tax return this year. Sometime after you file, you'll probably get a letter informing you of the mistake, telling you how much your actual tax liability differs from what you filed, and either a check or a bill for the difference.

maxxxxx 10y ago
That's exactly it. The IRS would just tell you what they already know.
gpawl 10y ago
IRS checks your math and makes sure all the reports (your copy vs employer/bank/vendor copy) match. They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take.
- sedachv 10y ago
  > They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take. They will for the most basic personal deductions. I have gotten a correction on a 1040EZ where my deduction was corrected upwards and the refund increased. It is impossible for the IRS or your tax preparer to know things like what kind of automobile deductions you can take for your sole-proprietorship business. This is an impossible problem to solve - every change to the deductions allowed is going to make some people pay taxes on what should be business expenses/losses and/or allow other people to claim legal-but-bogus or just plain fraudulent deductions.

M_Grey 10y ago

Edited by poster to conform with rules When you consider that your argument seems to be that we should ignore the efficiencies of scale and the removal of a pointless profit margin, because it won't be absolutely free.

dang 10y ago
Insinuations of shillage without evidence are not allowed here, so please don't do this. Someone expressing an opposing view does not count as evidence. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&date...
- M_Grey 10y ago
  I apologize, and won't do it again. Is there any way to report something like this?
  - dang 10y ago
    Sure, you can flag the comment and/or email us at hn@ycombinator.com.
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, and follow the rules.

hx87 10y ago

The IRS already does the work. How do you think they validate your tax returns?

ceejayoz 10y ago

The IRS already does your taxes, in parallel. If you forget something that was reported to them or make a math error, they'll take it out of your return and send you a letter.

mcherm 10y ago

Simplifying the tax code is a great idea. But it is DIFFERENT than allowing the IRS to pre-fill tax forms for people. Many people (although, due to our current complex tax code, not everyone) would be able to use these pre-filled forms and file taxes free for no effort. We shouldn't miss out on THAT opportunity just to chase tax simplification: we should do both!