4 ms·

Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make. Even when he was still alive they had different-sized iPods, iPads, and

Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make. Even when he was still alive they had different-sized iPods, iPads, and more. Computers have always come in different sizes: 13", 15", and 17". What is the difference between a 13" and a 15"? Does it make it harder to buy? Perhaps, but you wouldn't kill the 15" just so people don't get confused.

steeleduncan 10y ago
I think the point is that the difference between 13", 15" and 17" laptops is easily grasped by even the least knowledgeable customer. It takes no time to figure which product fits your needs best. The difference between the 9.7" iPad and the 9.7" iPad pro is not intuitive, at least to me. If it is not obvious how different products serve different needs, then you aren't actually expanding the market your product appeals to, you are just confusing customers.
- jacobolus 10y ago
  The important difference is that “pro” supports the stylus, while “non-pro” does not.
  - jfoster 10y ago
    Is that really the biggest difference? Sure, a stylus might be important, but they could just make all models work with the stylus.
    - memco 10y ago
      There are several differences, which any given person might find more appealing. Pro offers: - Better processing power - Better sound (more speakers) - Better resolution cameras (about +4MP on both) - Thinner (1.4 mm) - Lighter (.04 lbs) - Higher storage capacity - Pencil & Keyboard (the ipad smart KB, bluetooth should work on both) support And possibly the non-pro does not have P3 wide color gamut support? If I was buying one for a family member I would buy the iPad, not the pro unless I specifically knew they needed one of these features—of which, the keyboard and pencil support seem most probable, cameras probably second. Personally, I have the pro with the keyboard and pencil, and I love it for most day to day use. I have not yet tried to code on it, but I am dubious that I will ever be able to rely on it as my primary/only computing device. However, for meetings, classes or speaking engagements I find it highly versatile and fits a niche my laptop never would.
- nkkollaw 10y ago
  One is Pro, the other one isn't. Do you need a better screen with the stylus? If yes, iPad Pro, else iPad. I mean, this is kind of ridiculous. All beers, wines, sodas come from bottles that are exactly the same size, how do you know if you like Budweiser or Heineken.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 10y ago
    I actually find that it's really hard to pick a beer when I'm confronted with all the options: it would be a lot easier if a store just carried a lager and IPA and a stout (provided that the said beers were actually good)
    - nkkollaw 10y ago
      Pubs are like that (they might carry 3-4 beers), but lots of times I drink stuff I don't like because I don't like any of the particular brands. Choice is good, sometimes. :-)
    - matthewmcg 10y ago
      I think that's an instructive example of how different vendors cater to different markets. A good restaurant or non beer-focused bar might have a curated selection of one or two examples of each style. Their customers just want something good to pair with their food. But go to a good bottle shop or beer bar and you'll find sub-styles within sub-styles. Want an IPA? Will that be West Coast or New England? Double or single? Fruit adjuncts? OK, Which fruits? Beer geeks will seek out places with these choices.
  - glenneroo 10y ago
    Unfair comparison - beverages don't cost hundreds of dollars each, you can buy one of each and try them out to find your favorite(s).
- tajen 10y ago
  I understand you. There was a time where there was one lineup for each need, and you knew what matched your situation. "Apple, give me a tablet", you pay 1 grand, you get the most awesome tablet. Now it's like in sport shops: "I need a sleeping bag to sleep outside" gets you a response like "What kind of 'sleep outside' do you mean?"...
somestag 10y ago
Multiple models are fine, so long as you have clear signaling. As you point out, it's not terribly hard for the consumer to tell the difference between 13", 15", etc. Usually it's not that easy, and tech releases are shockingly hard to understand, and in my opinion most of the ambiguities are pure laziness. Since the topic at hand is Apple, let's pick out some examples from their small'ish product line: * There's no way to know, without doing extra research, that the iPhone 'S' suffix means "better." 'S' could easily mean "small." The 'C' suffix is even more ambiguous. * The iPhone SE is probably the most ambiguously named product they've released in years. Now it's even worse, because once you know that the SE stands for "Special Edition," releases like the iPhone 7 (RED) Special Edition make it even harder to understand where the SE fits in. * Apple still sells MacBook Airs, except they made the MacBook do what the Air used to do and they've all but discontinued Airs. * They're advertising the iPad 9.7", which is just the newest version of the iPad, except they already have an iPad Pro 9.7", so if you search for 9.7" on Google or look around Apple's store you mostly see mostly results for the Pro 9.7". In fact on the buy iPad 9.7" page doesn't even say 9.7" anywhere except when referencing the Pro. Of course Apple isn't the only tech company that does this; they just used to be one of the better ones, and now they're slowly giving up that advantage. The more technical a company thinks its userbase is, the lazier it gets with naming. Computer components, for example, have names that are so useless you basically have to infer their positioning by their MSRP. (Spec sheets are only marginally helpful; your only real option is to search for benchmarks.) This is not a good thing; everyone benefits from clearer naming conventions. Many companies just don't think it's important, for some reason.
- tptacek 10y ago
  My theory is that this is because they didn't want to release the SE, and that they are only lately coming to grips with the fact that consumer preference is inexorably leading them to a product line charted on two axes, not just one --- price sensitivity and size sensitivity.
slantyyz 10y ago
>> Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make. Dunno if there are other fogeys like me who remember the days going back to the Imagewriters, Stylewriters and Laserwriters -- those were fantastic printers in the pre-USB era where third party printer pickings were quite slim for Apple users. In the late 80s, you could even get a third party scanner in the shape ink cartridge called a Thunderscan for the Imagewriter.
- GuiA 10y ago
  > In the late 80s, you could even get a third party scanner in the shape ink cartridge called a Thunderscan for the Imagewriter. That was indeed very cool. The much lower complexity of the technology involved is what made these kind of feats possible tho- there's no way you could pull off something like that in this age of hyper miniaturized, specialized hardware components- that's why something like Project Ara was doomed from the start.
- bbarn 10y ago
  There's a picture of me as a teen on my outbound "laptop" struggling to get one hooked up somewhere. That roller-bar mouse thing though, that's what stands out :)

steeleduncan 10y ago

I think the point is that the difference between 13", 15" and 17" laptops is easily grasped by even the least knowledgeable customer. It takes no time to figure which product fits your needs best. The difference between the 9.7" iPad and the 9.7" iPad pro is not intuitive, at least to me. If it is not obvious how different products serve different needs, then you aren't actually expanding the market your product appeals to, you are just confusing customers.

jacobolus 10y ago
The important difference is that “pro” supports the stylus, while “non-pro” does not.
- jfoster 10y ago
  Is that really the biggest difference? Sure, a stylus might be important, but they could just make all models work with the stylus.
  - memco 10y ago
    There are several differences, which any given person might find more appealing. Pro offers: - Better processing power - Better sound (more speakers) - Better resolution cameras (about +4MP on both) - Thinner (1.4 mm) - Lighter (.04 lbs) - Higher storage capacity - Pencil & Keyboard (the ipad smart KB, bluetooth should work on both) support And possibly the non-pro does not have P3 wide color gamut support? If I was buying one for a family member I would buy the iPad, not the pro unless I specifically knew they needed one of these features—of which, the keyboard and pencil support seem most probable, cameras probably second. Personally, I have the pro with the keyboard and pencil, and I love it for most day to day use. I have not yet tried to code on it, but I am dubious that I will ever be able to rely on it as my primary/only computing device. However, for meetings, classes or speaking engagements I find it highly versatile and fits a niche my laptop never would.
nkkollaw 10y ago
One is Pro, the other one isn't. Do you need a better screen with the stylus? If yes, iPad Pro, else iPad. I mean, this is kind of ridiculous. All beers, wines, sodas come from bottles that are exactly the same size, how do you know if you like Budweiser or Heineken.
- fiddlerwoaroof 10y ago
  I actually find that it's really hard to pick a beer when I'm confronted with all the options: it would be a lot easier if a store just carried a lager and IPA and a stout (provided that the said beers were actually good)
  - nkkollaw 10y ago
    Pubs are like that (they might carry 3-4 beers), but lots of times I drink stuff I don't like because I don't like any of the particular brands. Choice is good, sometimes. :-)
  - matthewmcg 10y ago
    I think that's an instructive example of how different vendors cater to different markets. A good restaurant or non beer-focused bar might have a curated selection of one or two examples of each style. Their customers just want something good to pair with their food. But go to a good bottle shop or beer bar and you'll find sub-styles within sub-styles. Want an IPA? Will that be West Coast or New England? Double or single? Fruit adjuncts? OK, Which fruits? Beer geeks will seek out places with these choices.
- glenneroo 10y ago
  Unfair comparison - beverages don't cost hundreds of dollars each, you can buy one of each and try them out to find your favorite(s).
tajen 10y ago
I understand you. There was a time where there was one lineup for each need, and you knew what matched your situation. "Apple, give me a tablet", you pay 1 grand, you get the most awesome tablet. Now it's like in sport shops: "I need a sleeping bag to sleep outside" gets you a response like "What kind of 'sleep outside' do you mean?"...

somestag 10y ago

Multiple models are fine, so long as you have clear signaling. As you point out, it's not terribly hard for the consumer to tell the difference between 13", 15", etc. Usually it's not that easy, and tech releases are shockingly hard to understand, and in my opinion most of the ambiguities are pure laziness. Since the topic at hand is Apple, let's pick out some examples from their small'ish product line: * There's no way to know, without doing extra research, that the iPhone 'S' suffix means "better." 'S' could easily mean "small." The 'C' suffix is even more ambiguous. * The iPhone SE is probably the most ambiguously named product they've released in years. Now it's even worse, because once you know that the SE stands for "Special Edition," releases like the iPhone 7 (RED) Special Edition make it even harder to understand where the SE fits in. * Apple still sells MacBook Airs, except they made the MacBook do what the Air used to do and they've all but discontinued Airs. * They're advertising the iPad 9.7", which is just the newest version of the iPad, except they already have an iPad Pro 9.7", so if you search for 9.7" on Google or look around Apple's store you mostly see mostly results for the Pro 9.7". In fact on the buy iPad 9.7" page doesn't even say 9.7" anywhere except when referencing the Pro. Of course Apple isn't the only tech company that does this; they just used to be one of the better ones, and now they're slowly giving up that advantage. The more technical a company thinks its userbase is, the lazier it gets with naming. Computer components, for example, have names that are so useless you basically have to infer their positioning by their MSRP. (Spec sheets are only marginally helpful; your only real option is to search for benchmarks.) This is not a good thing; everyone benefits from clearer naming conventions. Many companies just don't think it's important, for some reason.

tptacek 10y ago
My theory is that this is because they didn't want to release the SE, and that they are only lately coming to grips with the fact that consumer preference is inexorably leading them to a product line charted on two axes, not just one --- price sensitivity and size sensitivity.

slantyyz 10y ago

>> Sure, but he cut stuff like printers, cameras, and other crazy crap they used to make. Dunno if there are other fogeys like me who remember the days going back to the Imagewriters, Stylewriters and Laserwriters -- those were fantastic printers in the pre-USB era where third party printer pickings were quite slim for Apple users. In the late 80s, you could even get a third party scanner in the shape ink cartridge called a Thunderscan for the Imagewriter.

GuiA 10y ago
> In the late 80s, you could even get a third party scanner in the shape ink cartridge called a Thunderscan for the Imagewriter. That was indeed very cool. The much lower complexity of the technology involved is what made these kind of feats possible tho- there's no way you could pull off something like that in this age of hyper miniaturized, specialized hardware components- that's why something like Project Ara was doomed from the start.
bbarn 10y ago
There's a picture of me as a teen on my outbound "laptop" struggling to get one hooked up somewhere. That roller-bar mouse thing though, that's what stands out :)