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H&R Block and Intuit Are Lobbying Against Making Tax Filling Free and Easy
- keeganjw 10y agoSuch bullshit. Can't believe they've gotten away with this for so long.
- roesl027 10y agoIn this alternative solution, the government does your taxes, so instead of paying a company/accountant to do it, our taxes / the deficit will pay for it. Someone has to do the work, and if it's not these companies, it will be the IRS. I'd be in favor of simplifying the tax code so everyone could file their own return with confidence!
- yellow_postit 10y agoI think this is a false equivalence. The IRS is already "doing taxes" for most people when they get their paystub and investment data electronically sent by those institutions and using that to compare against the self-willed returns. If anything for many individuals (not self-employed, minimal investments, basic mortgage) this plan would reduce overhead.
- gdulli 10y agoIn theory, the goal of the government is to maximize your amount of tax paid while the goal of professional tax preparation is to minimize it. (In order to compete with other services.) In practice, I don't know whether there ends up being a net benefit to taxpayers or not in the current setup.
- yellow_postit 10y agoOutside of extreme wealth cases it appears that many "bulk" prepares operate on a volume business where turnover and automation is the focus. Given sufficient transparency and a way to manually file a return if you disagree with the auto-return (like in the UK) then I believe the efficiency problem you point out would be addressed.
- loeg 10y agoAlso: private filing via tax prep firm would remain an option.
- maxerickson 10y agoThe IRS already has the infrastructure to do it. For simple returns they also have all the necessary information whether a return is filed or not. So we can do both. Simplify the tax code and send a lot of people a post card summarizing their tax year. If the summary is wrong or not advantageous, they can file an amended return.
- petters 10y agoThis is how it works in Sweden. Most people just approve their "post card." Everything is done online.
- frgtpsswrdlame 10y agoMany peoples taxes are basically automatic. The government's cost to do these is basically negligible.
- raverbashing 10y agoThere's nothing to be done if you have only one job and no deductions to file. Your taxes have already been taken out by payroll. Making the forms easier is certainly an important consideration.
- mikeash 10y agoThe work is already being done. Try putting some incorrect numbers into your tax return this year. Sometime after you file, you'll probably get a letter informing you of the mistake, telling you how much your actual tax liability differs from what you filed, and either a check or a bill for the difference.
- maxxxxx 10y agoThat's exactly it. The IRS would just tell you what they already know.
- gpawl 10y agoIRS checks your math and makes sure all the reports (your copy vs employer/bank/vendor copy) match. They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take.
- sedachv 10y ago> They won't tell you which deductions you are supposed to take. They will for the most basic personal deductions. I have gotten a correction on a 1040EZ where my deduction was corrected upwards and the refund increased. It is impossible for the IRS or your tax preparer to know things like what kind of automobile deductions you can take for your sole-proprietorship business. This is an impossible problem to solve - every change to the deductions allowed is going to make some people pay taxes on what should be business expenses/losses and/or allow other people to claim legal-but-bogus or just plain fraudulent deductions.
- M_Grey 10y agoEdited by poster to conform with rules When you consider that your argument seems to be that we should ignore the efficiencies of scale and the removal of a pointless profit margin, because it won't be absolutely free.
- dang 10y agoInsinuations of shillage without evidence are not allowed here, so please don't do this. Someone expressing an opposing view does not count as evidence. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&date...
- hx87 10y agoThe IRS already does the work. How do you think they validate your tax returns?
- ceejayoz 10y agoThe IRS already does your taxes, in parallel. If you forget something that was reported to them or make a math error, they'll take it out of your return and send you a letter.
- mcherm 10y agoSimplifying the tax code is a great idea. But it is DIFFERENT than allowing the IRS to pre-fill tax forms for people. Many people (although, due to our current complex tax code, not everyone) would be able to use these pre-filled forms and file taxes free for no effort. We shouldn't miss out on THAT opportunity just to chase tax simplification: we should do both!
- John23832 10y agoIt's never wrong for businesses to lobby for their interests. It's wrong when our elected officials bend to those business interest when it goes against the public interest.
- mikeash 10y agoI completely disagree. It's absolutely wrong for a business to lobby for their interests when it harms others. This is little different from dumping toxic waste into the local reservoir. That would be wrong even if it were legal. Obviously, a lot of business don't really care about right and wrong, and so they'll still do it. But we can condemn it.
- John23832 10y agoI never said we can't condemn the behavior of businesses. The prime objective for a business is to make money. All the ethics, right/wrongs, etc are things that we expect from the people who run those businesses. But the business is there to make money. It is up to the people in charge of making choices for society to make the right choices. It's not the responsibility of the business. They have every right to lobby for anything they want.
- mikeash 10y agoHow can we condemn something that's "never wrong"? They have no right to lobby for anything they want. They may have the legal right to do so, but it's still wrong in some cases.
- John23832 10y agoYou're conflating two different things. If Company A wanted to lobby for the killing of all blue eyes babies, they could. They can make signs, start campaigns, attempt to get a meeting with a member of Congress. All of that lobbying would be useless though because we all know that that idea is disgusting and wrong (hopefully we all know... with this current climate, nothing is certain). The act of killing the babies is wrong, and we can pretty much all agree on that. But that company has every right to lobby for that position. No matter how crazy. > They may have the legal right to do so, but it's still wrong in some cases. You seem to agree here.
- serg_chernata 10y agoIs there anything we can do to fight back?
- kardos 10y agoIt seems to me that /one/ open source project would obsolete their efforts. I'd donate to such a project, eg, in lieu of an Intuit donation...
- arebop 10y agoI would gladly match my tax prep fee with a donation to the counter-lobby, if one existed. Where can I buy tax-complexity-offsets?
- tvanantwerp 10y agoI work for the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan tax policy think tank. As a 501(c)3 we're not allowed to lobby, but we do work hard to show legislators the benefits of taxes that are simple, transparent, neutral, and stable. https://taxfoundation.org/principles/ https://taxfoundation.org/principles/
- pzone 10y agoThank you for the work you do. I disagree with the principle of neutrality because I support Pigouvian taxation. But we could use a lot more of the other three.
- coldpie 10y agoSenator Warren has introduced bills in the past to simplify the tax filing process. I'll let you do the homework to figure out for which party you should vote to help this kind of legislation pass. https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2016/04/13/elizabeth-warren-just-proposed-a-bill-to-make-tax-return-filing-way-easier https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2016/04/13/elizabeth-wa...
- jandrese 10y ago
- SpicyPython 10y agoI mean, I feel like we should've seen this coming. They chunked off a significant portion of the market, and now they can try to make tax filing more expensive such that they can make more money. It's disappointing, because I love online tax filing, and I just hope their lobbying efforts don't pay off.
- mtgx 10y ago> I mean, I feel like we should've seen this coming I would say so, considering it's not their first time doing this: https://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-millions-to-lobby-against-easier-tax-returns/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/turbotax-maker-funnels-mil...
- atonse 10y agoCould we not start a non-profit that builds software as good as H&R block and allows people to file their own taxes?
- goda90 10y agoTheir response would be to lobby for a more complicated tax code so that competitor's struggle to keep up to date. It could become an arms race.
- imgabe 10y agoI'm as cynical as the next person, but seriously, how successful could they be approaching legislators with the idea "Make the tax code even more needlessly complicated to support our business"? Short of outright bribery I don't see any benefit to a politician for supporting something like that. There are a lot of complications in the tax code because with 300 million people there are a lot of special cases to account for. Adding additional complexity just for the sake of complexity seems like a non-starter.
- briandear 10y agoActually Milton Friedman gave a speech on that very topic -- the tax code is intentionally complicated because it provides political power.
- WillyOnWheels 10y agoMilton Friedman partly invented automatic withholding of SSI taxes. Conservatives want taxes to be as painful as possible, to highlight the fact that the tax exists.
- Spivak 10y agoSure, but there wouldn't really be a meaningful difference between that and the existing players since non-profits still need revenue to operate.
- koolba 10y ago> But the legislation would also permanently bar the IRS from offering its own free alternative. Why should we as citizens of this great country be forced to give up the right to form a public option? Not quite 1:1 but the analogies to health care do come to mind.
- equalunique 10y agoWhat's going to happen to all of the nice employees maintaining HR Block and Intuit's tax filling products? Should they go become used car salespeople and McDonald's fry cooks?
- Apocryphon 10y agoIsn't this disruption? Aren't we supposed to like it?
- RamshackleJ 10y agoAs the Market wills! Do not fear for the Market always has a greater plan in mind.
- koolba 10y agoIf they can compete with a public option then I'm sure they'll have jobs. If not who's to stop a private competitor from eating their lunch? FYI I'm not saying ban private tax preparation (though I do think it's unnecessary for 90+% of people as they're just filing a 1040EZ). Just that we shouldn't be restricted from allowing the Feds to provide a default option.
- frgtpsswrdlame 10y agoThe same thing that happened to the workers who were displaced by the cotton gin, the assembly line and the plow.
- djsumdog 10y agoAustralia has their own tax software. It's not pretty, but it's pretty straight forward. In NZ you don't even have to file. You login to the IRD site and it shows you your earnings, similar to this proposal. Jobs will disappear and some industry will go away if we had a unified federal run tax system. Most likely though, these two companies will turn into contractors for the government to make an maintain one standardized system. They'll earn less money, but the entire system overall would be better. This is a good place where we can see capitalism break down; where the public good is done a disservice by those who would seek to retain their earnings from an inefficient system.
- senior_james 10y agoThe government would actually love this. Most people are ignorant of tax laws and would just sign a piece of paper to get all of their taxes done. It would be an instant pay raise because most people would never even know if they could write something off. It would also allow them to easily remove the ability to write anything off, without too many people complaining. What many people don't like to talk about is that yes, places like Sweden have much simpler tax code. But they also removed most ways to actually reduce your tax burden and grow your business (this applies to personal taxes too). You are also required to have a special black box on any credit card transactions, which sends everything straight to the government. This smacks of authoritarianism. Simplicity might seem better, but it gives us less control over our own taxes. It's also not really that difficult now. Everyone I know has been doing their own 1040-EZ form since they started to work. It's usually only one or two forms to fill out. If this is too complicated for our society, we truly have problems.
- jakelazaroff 10y agoIt's not like you couldn't still go to Intuit or H&R Block if you didn't trust the IRS. There's literally no downside to the government providing this service.
- senior_james 10y agoLike I said, the downside is that most people are lazy and will just fill out the form and send it in because they don't want to deal with it or think about it. You can't get most people to do simple math.
- jandrese 10y agoIsn't this a good thing? People shouldn't have to think about this stuff, there's no reason unless you are doing something special. If you have a simple tax return then why bother making everybody go through the motions of filling in the paperwork to calculate the same thing the government already knows? If you do have a more complicated situation then the prefilled form at least gives you a starting point.
- joeax 10y agoBoth excel at finding ways to gouge customers too. Doing standardized deductions, but happen to sell one stock? Nope. Gotta upgrade to Premier for $30 more.
- sly010 10y agoOr just happen to receive dividends...
- bkohlmann 10y agoWhile I am against Intuits efforts, what astounds me most is how LITTLE money is spent lobbying. A few million over a year is peanuts compared to the broader market opportunity. And the implication that Congresspeople are bought off by sums as low as "$32,000" since 2008 seems unlikely. Intuit and H&R may simply contribute to those they know already support their agenda.
- markkanof 10y agoYou do occasionally hear the random news item about people who are willing to kill other people for what seems like paltry sums of money or people who spend years and years skimming money from the company they work for, but the total amount stolen is very small. It wouldn't surprise me if there are members of congress that would be willing to push some agenda for a 32,000 donation.
- mikeash 10y agoMembers of Congress are amazingly cheap. And this particular issue is one they won't get a lot of trouble over, which makes it even cheaper.
- username223 10y agoAs recently as 2006, Duke Cunningham was offering 10s of millions of dollars in defense contracts in exchange for a boat and a couple hundred thousand in cash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham#Allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Cunningham#Allegations That's guaranteed money, not just "influence." If you have enough money to play, Congressmen offer enormous returns.
- imgabe 10y agoFiling is always free. Online filing costs money, but you can always mail in a paper form. If everyone did that, the IRS would pretty quickly want to make sure people can file online easily and cheaply. Stop using HR Block and Turbo Tax. For most people, taxes are not very complicated. The IRS publishes detailed instructions that literally explain what every box means and what should go in it for every form. Just read it, fill it out, mail it in.
- Azkar 10y agoYou underestimate how lazy and unmotivated most people are.
- komali2 10y agoBut every time I do that my calculated return is far lower than the return I get using online tools.
- jlarocco 10y ago> Filing is always free. Online filing costs money, but you can always mail in a paper form. If everyone did that, the IRS would pretty quickly want to make sure people can file online easily and cheaply. Nobody at the IRS cares one way or the other. Until a few years ago that was the only way to file, and their machines handled the load just fine. If there's a lot of paper files, and it takes an extra week for somebody to get their return, it's not going to bother the IRS one bit.
- euyyn 10y agoAin't nobody got time for that.
- AtticusTheGreat 10y agoI file my taxes for free, easily, by printing out the forms at home and doing them by hand on paper. The only cost to me is for the envelopes and postage. I've done some pretty complex filings over the years, and have built up the knowledge I need to do it well. Also, if I make a mistake the government is usually pretty good about letting me know and I either cut them a check for the difference or they cut me a check. It's actually not that hard, as long as you go through it line by line and read the instructions.
- joeax 10y agoNot disagreeing, but what you are really doing is spending your time instead of money. It's a predatory industry for sure, but there are trade-offs. Sometimes they find deductions you didn't know you had.
- eli 10y agoAs someone who does their own taxes, aren't you in favor of the IRS pre-filling your forms with the information they already know?
- AtticusTheGreat 10y agoYeah absolutely. I'd love a free online solution from the government as it would make my life easier. So far, I haven't been willing to pay out to Intuit or HRBlock for a slight time/convenience savings.
- coldpie 10y agoI disagree that it's easy to do by hand, and I'm a relatively smart dude. It took me about 2.5 hours to do my and my wife's taxes last night including four W-2s and calculating an ACA penalty due to a gap. That was 2.5 hours longer than I would have preferred, especially considering the IRS already has this info. But, I still prefer this to supporting Intuit & Co.
- jawns 10y agoBecause of the complexity of tax regulations, I don't think coming up with a competing free/open-source/nonprofit tax preparation service is the right answer to this problem. Let's consider the positions of all sides: * The professional tax preparers are worried that they're going to lose business if the government assumes the bulk of the tax preparation work. * We as taxpayers would prefer that the government pre-fills a return for us, since they already have the information, and lets us file the pre-filled form if we detect no errors. That saves us time and also lets us see what info the government has about our income. * But we also recognize that it's in the government's interest to maximize the tax we pay, and (ideally) it's in the tax preparers' interest to minimize the tax we pay. Given all that, if pre-filled returns are unlikely, for political reasons, then perhaps a step up from the current Free File program might work like this: 1) You go to a Free File partner. 2) You authorize the IRS to release all of your tax information to that partner, who pre-fills the forms. 3) The partner walks you through the pre-filled forms, so you can check for accuracy. 4) The partner then does its own checks to discover errors that you might not have picked up on. 5) The partner makes money by selling optional add-ons, such as audit protection services. This would, at the very least, speed up the Free File process and let you see what info the IRS has. It also ensures (like it or not) that the partners keep getting business (or at least eyeballs to pitch extra services to), and it ensures that your interest in paying the least amount of tax possible is reasonably protected.
- problems 10y ago> Because of the complexity of tax regulations, I don't think a free/open-source/nonprofit tax preparation system is the right answer to this problem. Maybe our taxes are simpler, but in Canada we have many free tools even endorsed by the government for tax preparation and they're quite popular. Some of them are even offered by Intuit and H&R Block in order to keep people using their software.
- jawns 10y agoYes, the U.S. has free options, too. In fact, that's what the OP's article focuses on, and I referenced the Free File system in my comment. I didn't mean that no free options should exist. I mean that coming up with a "disruptive" competitor to the big guys that essentially does what they do, but doesn't charge you, isn't as easy as it seems.
- Symmetry 10y agoEven without the lobbying the public choice aspects of this are bad. I'd like easier tax filing but I wouldn't vote for a politician who I disagreed with about immigration if they supported it. On the other hand I'd bet that most of employees of H&R Block, Intuit, etc would consider tax reform a huge threat to their livelihoods and would rank this as their top priority in choosing who to vote for.
- Maarten88 10y agoIn the Netherlands we have had this for years. You login with the tax agency and download a pre-filled tax form. Wages and Income Tax is pre-filled, as are Bank savings and morgages. The pre-filled form is complete for over 90% of people. The 10% for who it is not can add or correct things that our IRS may not know correctly (i.e. foreign holdings or bitcoins). You then digitally sign and submit it. It's quite easy to do yourself and I think most people here do (couldn't find a percentage). I could find that 97% is submitted digitally, only 3% is on paper. We do have commercial offerings, those are used for the more complex scenario's, mostly by accountants and tax professionals
- bprieto 10y agoIt's mostly the same in Spain. Our IRS equivalent sends you a draft that you can approve digitally. If you have something to add or change, there is an online form that you can pre-load with the government data and then edit anything you need. You sing it digitally and you're done. Before that, there was a market for tax advisors that filled taxes for ordinary people, but it's gone. Only rich people or people who own complex business or investments need an advisor to fill their taxes now.
- Dunan 10y agoJapan is like this, only most regular employees never have to do a thing. Our employers take care of everything and our December pay packets are adjusted so that the correct amount of tax for the year has been paid. Banks also take tax out before paying interest to account holders. You can also go to a tax office sponsored by your city hall and have a preparer assist you at no extra charge.
- kwhitefoot 10y agoHere in Norway i don't need to download anything, the tax authority website has all the tools I need and most of it is already filled out and ready to go. All I do is check that it is all correct things (rarely), add the bits that they can't get automatically (offshore bank accounts, stocks on the new York exchange, etc.), and hit the button to say submit it. It immediately gives me an estimate showing how much I have overpaid or underpaid. For people with simple tax affairs, nothing offshore and not self-employed, there is nothing at all to do.
- naftaliharris 10y agoI'm surprised the article and comments haven't mentioned CreditKarma's tax solution yet, which is (actually) free. [1] Presumably their strategy is to take the users and data they get from offering free tax filing and use them to advertise lending products. I think that's a sustainable and politically feasible way to get free tax filing, actually; I expect that in ~5 years Credit Karma will have eaten a big part of TurboTax and H&R Block's lunch. [1] https://www.creditkarma.com/tax https://www.creditkarma.com/tax
- hmhrex 10y agoDamn. And I already filed my taxes. Maybe I'll use this next year.
- berberous 10y agoI have not used CreditKarma's tax product, but I've heard folks say that it calculates some things incorrectly. I think that's understandable for a brand new product, but I'd be cautious about using it this year if you don't (1) have a very simple return, (2) check their work against the IRS forms/instructions and/or (3) check against another product. (For those who don't want to give TurboTax or H&R money, I've been quite pleased with FreeTaxUSA, which is like $12 for federal and state. It's a bit less user friendly, but plenty good enough if you have some understanding of taxes, and there are way fewer upsells and overpriced crap.)
- heyheyhey 10y ago> I have not used CreditKarma's tax product, but I've heard folks say that it calculates some things incorrectly. Can anyone else attest to this? I am going to start doing my taxes soon (for the first time in my life) and CreditKarma seems like a good solution for me.
- computerbob 10y agoI did my tax return with CreditKarma and TaxAct. They came out almost identical. I filed with CreditKarma because it was free. They basically worked the same. It only took me about 10 extra minutes. It also saved me about 1k since I had done my property taxes wrong. All in all I would say that CreditKarma was worth doing and I would use them again as long as they are free. Side Note: I have used TurboTax and TaxAct in the past.
- DoodleBuggy 10y agoIs lobbying just a cute alternative word for "corruption"?
- sly010 10y agoI feel like this comes up every March :)
- anigbrowl 10y agoThey've been doing this for years. When I grumble about capitalism this is the sort of thing that annoys me. People say government is bad because it doesn't have competition and is a van intrinsically violent monopoly, but here we see an example of private actors spending money to make government unresponsive or outright antagonistic to people's needs so as to profit by serving those needs. The argument goes on that it's government's fault for allowing itself to be influenced, but that rests on an increasingly common fallacy of composition as if government were a monolithic entity, which (especially in the United States) is so far from being the truth as to be a lie. The fact is that many actors in government have been corrupted by campaign donations, and that the mechanistic application of an unlimited first-amendment concept of political speech Does Not Work. A basic problem particular to the United States, in my view, if that while the Constitution treats of both law and equity, law has gained primacy and some parties are heavily invested in keeping it that way, arguing that the courts should be no more than mechanistic deciders rather than moral agents in their own right, most often summarized as 'we're a nation of laws!' - a curious statement from people who pledge allegiance to the idea of a Republic with liberty and justice for all, as if there could never be any such thing as unjust laws. It would be interesting to see which members of Congress are most heavily influenced by lobbyists, and examine their public statements to see whether this correlates with hostility towards the judicial branch that checks their 'work.'
- refurb 10y ago* When I grumble about capitalism this is the sort of thing that annoys me.* Is this a problem with capitalism or government? If a company tries to get the gov't to block competition, the correct response is "piss off".
- anigbrowl 10y agoI went on to address that i the rest of the comment.
- anigbrowl 10y agoIf it wasn't clear, I think the problem is capitalism because the would-be monopolist can simply rent a politician to antagonize whoever is in charge until either the policy or the policymakers are changed. Money is not all that talks in elections, but it's a huge factor.
- hmhrex 10y agoI've been using TurboTax for years, and I think I'm ready to move on if they are going to continue lobbying. What are some other alternatives? I don't mind paying, but I want to make sure it's a service people trust.
- thewhitetulip 10y agoEvery time I read that Intuit is lobbying against making Tax filing free and easy, I feel immensely grateful that Indian tax filing is simple and free. Yes, we might lack in 24x7 electricity or the first world infrastructure, but our tax filing mechanism is simple! I hope that the US makes this change to their tax process.
- jandrese 10y agoPeople in India pay their taxes? That's news to me.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- thewhitetulip 10y agoIf you believe them, 1-3% people pay taxes and I'm one of them!
- pasbesoin 10y agoFor three years, one of the departments I worked in had to suffer through massive, monthly paper report distributions. Because the petty-tyrant manager would not let us convert to electronic reporting. Because it would shrink his personal turf. From business and legal aspects through to recent news on scientific "protectionism", no matter the "professionalism" and "objectivity" attached to the domain, they remain run by humans. With all their human traits and foibles -- which tend to come before the "objective." One reason -- a primary one -- I see for guaranteeing people a basic quality of life, e.g. health care and an at least tolerable retirement. So that they -- maybe -- don't fear change so much. Feel, even, that they get to take part in the change, even when it is not at their own initiative and patent.
- BrandonM 10y agoFor anyone who can program (including spreadsheets!), it's not all that hard to file your own taxes the old-fashioned way. To do it digitally, just use https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ and start with a 1040. Read each line carefully and go from there. The IRS has tons of great resources, and you can even call them up. Each form has a companion instruction booklet (online PDF), and sometimes those instructions refer to an IRS publication with additional clarification. If you can read a technical blog post and follow a clear procedure, you can file your own taxes. I've been filing taxes the (new) old-fashioned way for my wife and I for the last 3 years. That includes 330+ days abroad (Federal Earned Income Exclusion), a sole proprietorship, an LLC, an ISO exercise (AMT), 3 separate states, and 5 separate cities. Each time, it has taken me a full 12-16 hours (a solid day or two on a weekend) for federal, multiple states, and multiple cities. It's not the most fun, but by the end of it, I understand our taxes and finances a lot better. We can arrange our situation better going forward. We can keep more appropriate records to make the next year's filings easier. And most of all, I have the satisfaction of not funding an industry that lobbies against my interests.
- jandrese 10y ago> it's not all that hard to file your own taxes the old-fashioned way > Each time, it has taken me a full 12-16 hours You have a strange definition of "not that hard". This is exactly my experience trying to do it the old fashioned way. The IRS's documentation is written in accountant speak so deciphering what each means is an effort and all of the time it takes adds up. Who else uses the word "schedule" to mean "form"? And then there are so many places where it talks about "qualifying" this or that without telling you how you know if something qualifies. And that's before you get to the nightmare if you own stocks. My wife inherited some telecom stocks from her grandmother. Her grandmother got them as part of her paycheck when she worked at AT&T. Unfortunately she didn't keep any of the original documentation for them (my wife had to track down the stock management companies and get them to reprint the certificates). These stocks were then of course split across all of the baby bells and merged and split a ton of different ways over the years. Then one of the companies merges and we get a payout for a fractional amount of a share and have to calculate the strike price of the stock for the sale. As an average person this seems like an impossible task. We just enter 0 and pay a ton of extra tax because how in the hell are we supposed to do that calculation? As far as I can tell we can never sell these stocks.
- I_am_neo 10y agoThere is already more than enough bureaucracy involved in paying taxes, creating an ecosystem to make more of that bureaucracy... for a profit.... is not my idea of a good idea.
- mtokunaga 10y agoI am not sure if it is true still, but I remember "regular" workers in Japan do not have to file tax. They are deducted from their pays and that's it. I think that will similarly apply to a very large number of population. I also never liked really to use accountants, as they basically ask the same questions that I have to collect myself. Might as well use an online tool. Especially if most of the "W"s are already at IRS/FRB why do I even have to send the copies of them again. Why don't they just give me the partially filed XML/JSON to me to finish it off.
- Termiux 10y agoThis is how it's done in Mexico, most people have no idea how to declare taxes any other way. You can still deduct some things in an itemization like manner if you want or are self employed but otherwise its automatically deducted from your payroll.
- maerF0x0 10y agoAutomating inefficient/complex systems is just going to make the same problems happen faster. Seems to me the first step should be to simplify the tax code. AMT and deductions seem like a good first pass.
- S3curityPlu5 10y agoGood luck there is already hundreds of companies that offer free e filing, This is a losing proposition for them, competition has kept this free and there is no reason to use either H&R Block or Intuit. There is also no reason to pay a tax preparer or accountant to do your taxes, since you can easily do it yourself. I can understand for companies, and very wealthy people with tons of stocks, bonds, and IRAs etc. Then pay someone, but for the normal person who just works one job and doesn't do much trading or investing, then go onto the irs web site and choose one of the hundreds of free efile companies each year, they often have a limit of 62,000 anyway in gross income, so it's harder to find a free file if you make more money. They are going to try but this is a state by state issue.
- S3curityPlu5 10y agoI used taxslayer the last time I free filed, but I thought that I remember being more than only 13 companies. I don't want the government to fill anything in for me, however, because there's no way that they know everything about my deductions and credits and all the loopholes that many people want to use, if you just work a 9 to 5 job for one company then that sounds ok. I say keep it how it is now, and they've been lobbying for years, they probably think that they have a chance now because the Republican party is all about helping the private sector and having a small government.
- smsm42 10y agoThis was already discussed here in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13853150 little more than a week ago.
- stefek99 10y agoDoesn't surprise me. That's what happens when companies are legally obliged to provide profit for shareholders. That's why I highly respect Kickstarter (among many others) who decided to reincorporate at Public Benefit Company.