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My advice is that whenever you become confident/comfortable in your current work, that's when you have to change team or company. Whenever it gets easy, it mean

My advice is that whenever you become confident/comfortable in your current work, that's when you have to change team or company. Whenever it gets easy, it means you have stopped learning. I agree with what was said about tools; it doesn't make you a better programmer to know all the latest ES6 features and frameworks. What makes you a better programmer is your ability to adapt and customize your approach to different situations and environments (with different scalability, stability, interactivity, security, time and regulatory constraints). I've been through a lot of different companies (I usually stay 6 months to 1.5 years each on average) and the environments/workflows are usually VERY different each time. After changing a few times, it gets easier to move between different companies - You learn how to produce code that is universally acceptable and not just acceptable within the confines of a single company.

sillysaurus3 10y ago
My advice is that whenever you become confident/comfortable in your current work, that's when you have to change team or company. Whenever it gets easy, it means you have stopped learning. I agree with what was said about tools; it doesn't make you a better programmer to know all the latest ES6 features and frameworks. It's tough to say. Given a choice between being a JS ninja capable of hammering out http://www.track-trump.com/ http://www.track-trump.com/ in a week, or a generalist with a wide variety of skills, the former is so much more valuable from a monetary standpoint that it'd be hard to turn it down. It's less satisfying, and you end up less capable in certain respects, but it all depends which axis you want to optimize along.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Offtopic, but I have to say - I love the site you linked. This should be a standard thing done about every politician in power.
  - sillysaurus3 10y ago
    It's the brainchild of Sam, Greg, Alec, and Peter. https://twitter.com/sama/status/822494523959877632 https://twitter.com/sama/status/822494523959877632 Greg is the JS ninja I was referring to. https://twitter.com/sama/status/822500368797966336 https://twitter.com/sama/status/822500368797966336
- metaphorm 10y ago
  is that really a good example of highly focused coding skills? it looks like a very standard web site that any web developer familiar with modern frontend tools could hammer out in a week. I don't see anything there besides some content presentation stuff. Am I missing something more interesting? When I think of "JS ninja" I think of sites with really complicated UI, like multipart forms with lots of validation, or interesting map layer based tools, or browser games or something like that.
- jondubois 10y ago
  It's not necessarily about being a generalist. You can move between different companies within the same industry and get highly specialized knowledge within a specific domain. Going through a few companies trains you to think creatively and consider more different approaches.
sametmax 10y ago
If you do that you are never at peak productivity. You should rest a bit of time when it become easy. This will have 2 benefits: - you can recover a little from all this learning. Your brain need rest too. - you are really productive and hence are the best professional you can be. Otherwise you spend your time eternally on project when you are not an expert at, which for your client/employer is not really fair.
sheepmullet 10y ago
> confident/comfortable in your current work, that's when you have to change team or company. > I usually stay 6 months to 1.5 years each on average That's right around the point where you can increase your scope and responsibility within the team. On the medium-large sized projects I work on you won't be making any major changes until the 12-18month mark. Id say it's a good strategy for a junior dev but very limiting in the long term.
- sillysaurus3 10y ago
  On the medium-large sized projects I work on you won't be making any major changes until the 12-18month mark. It seems like that'd exclude anyone who wants to make a name for themselves, which usually means excluding all the best people.
  - sheepmullet 10y ago
    What do you mean? The two best developers I know have spent 12 years at Microsoft and 6 years at Google respectively. What makes you think you need to switch jobs every 12-18 months to make a name for yourself? And what makes you think the best developers care about making a name for themselves?
    - sillysaurus3 10y ago
      We may be using different definitions of "best." In some companies, the best developers are the ones who keep their heads down, do what their told, and don't try to question authority, decisions, or direction. These traits are highly desirable precisely because people reliably do what their told. In other companies, creativity is considered an asset. Most of the important work done at my previous company was largely completed by one very productive intern, which was surprising to discover. And at each of the companies I've worked at, I was given freedom to determine direction and implementation of the projects I was given, as long as the results were excellent. Both approaches have merit, but if I were to bet on one, I'd choose the company that's liberal in granting freedoms but also willing to fire someone if they turn out not to be able to deliver. This has generally been a recipe for success at most startups, for example. It's more cutthroat, but in a different way: the former is cutthroat politicking, whereas the latter is based entirely on a developer's capabilities. I'd rather be in an environment that rewards effectiveness rather than alliances. And when your effectiveness can only be demonstrated within the very narrow scope and boundaries set by your boss, then people who care about being effective tend to migrate elsewhere. Most of this can be summed up as "The idea of paying your dues is anachronistic."
Chris2048 10y ago
While it can be nice to learn at work, that isn't the prime aim: the main reason to work is to make money. If you are productive, enjoy it and save your mental energy for after-work projects. Granted; there are some things that require so much time you need to do it at work to really get the grasp of it, but this isn't everything.

sillysaurus3 10y ago

My advice is that whenever you become confident/comfortable in your current work, that's when you have to change team or company. Whenever it gets easy, it means you have stopped learning. I agree with what was said about tools; it doesn't make you a better programmer to know all the latest ES6 features and frameworks. It's tough to say. Given a choice between being a JS ninja capable of hammering out http://www.track-trump.com/ http://www.track-trump.com/ in a week, or a generalist with a wide variety of skills, the former is so much more valuable from a monetary standpoint that it'd be hard to turn it down. It's less satisfying, and you end up less capable in certain respects, but it all depends which axis you want to optimize along.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Offtopic, but I have to say - I love the site you linked. This should be a standard thing done about every politician in power.
- sillysaurus3 10y ago
  It's the brainchild of Sam, Greg, Alec, and Peter. https://twitter.com/sama/status/822494523959877632 https://twitter.com/sama/status/822494523959877632 Greg is the JS ninja I was referring to. https://twitter.com/sama/status/822500368797966336 https://twitter.com/sama/status/822500368797966336
metaphorm 10y ago
is that really a good example of highly focused coding skills? it looks like a very standard web site that any web developer familiar with modern frontend tools could hammer out in a week. I don't see anything there besides some content presentation stuff. Am I missing something more interesting? When I think of "JS ninja" I think of sites with really complicated UI, like multipart forms with lots of validation, or interesting map layer based tools, or browser games or something like that.
jondubois 10y ago
It's not necessarily about being a generalist. You can move between different companies within the same industry and get highly specialized knowledge within a specific domain. Going through a few companies trains you to think creatively and consider more different approaches.

sametmax 10y ago

If you do that you are never at peak productivity. You should rest a bit of time when it become easy. This will have 2 benefits: - you can recover a little from all this learning. Your brain need rest too. - you are really productive and hence are the best professional you can be. Otherwise you spend your time eternally on project when you are not an expert at, which for your client/employer is not really fair.

sheepmullet 10y ago

> confident/comfortable in your current work, that's when you have to change team or company. > I usually stay 6 months to 1.5 years each on average That's right around the point where you can increase your scope and responsibility within the team. On the medium-large sized projects I work on you won't be making any major changes until the 12-18month mark. Id say it's a good strategy for a junior dev but very limiting in the long term.

sillysaurus3 10y ago
On the medium-large sized projects I work on you won't be making any major changes until the 12-18month mark. It seems like that'd exclude anyone who wants to make a name for themselves, which usually means excluding all the best people.
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  What do you mean? The two best developers I know have spent 12 years at Microsoft and 6 years at Google respectively. What makes you think you need to switch jobs every 12-18 months to make a name for yourself? And what makes you think the best developers care about making a name for themselves?
  - sillysaurus3 10y ago
    We may be using different definitions of "best." In some companies, the best developers are the ones who keep their heads down, do what their told, and don't try to question authority, decisions, or direction. These traits are highly desirable precisely because people reliably do what their told. In other companies, creativity is considered an asset. Most of the important work done at my previous company was largely completed by one very productive intern, which was surprising to discover. And at each of the companies I've worked at, I was given freedom to determine direction and implementation of the projects I was given, as long as the results were excellent. Both approaches have merit, but if I were to bet on one, I'd choose the company that's liberal in granting freedoms but also willing to fire someone if they turn out not to be able to deliver. This has generally been a recipe for success at most startups, for example. It's more cutthroat, but in a different way: the former is cutthroat politicking, whereas the latter is based entirely on a developer's capabilities. I'd rather be in an environment that rewards effectiveness rather than alliances. And when your effectiveness can only be demonstrated within the very narrow scope and boundaries set by your boss, then people who care about being effective tend to migrate elsewhere. Most of this can be summed up as "The idea of paying your dues is anachronistic."

Chris2048 10y ago

While it can be nice to learn at work, that isn't the prime aim: the main reason to work is to make money. If you are productive, enjoy it and save your mental energy for after-work projects. Granted; there are some things that require so much time you need to do it at work to really get the grasp of it, but this isn't everything.