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From a company that prides itself to be ethical (see the accessibility stuff and their ads), this is not cool. On the other hand, if it's legal why would they

From a company that prides itself to be ethical (see the accessibility stuff and their ads), this is not cool. On the other hand, if it's legal why would they not do it.

tedunangst 10y ago
If one's legal tax bill is $0, how does one calculate one's ethical tax bill? Which form does one fill out to remit ethical taxes?
- al452 10y ago
  As far as I have been able to tell from the behaviour of those who believe this kind of thing, the correct authority to consult to determine ethical tax liability is the sub-editor in charge of writing headlines for whichever newspaper one reads.
- nkkollaw 10y ago
  You know, there are things that are legal, but you know are unethical and you don't do them. Refusing get up to let an elderly woman sit on the bus is not illegal, but you do it because it's the right thing to do. Apple go to great lengths to make their taxes 0, doing things that small businesses would never be able to do. If they didn't their taxes would be hundreds of millions. This—alongside depriving California and the States of money that could be used for the community—makes it unethical IMHO.
valuearb 10y ago
How is it ethical to take money from shareholders to pay extra taxes you and they don't owe?
touristtam 10y ago
I am questioning the ethical angle: A company that uses Evangelist as a title for a brand promoter should not be seen as ethical.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  Using a hyperbolic title for a brand promoter is an ethical issue? Why?
  - touristtam 10y ago
    Because words have meaning, and misuse of a word for personal gain is a morally questionable at best. This is the whole issue about marketing and advertisement: making you believe with pictures and words that the product being promoted is what you need at this moment.
    - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
      > Because words have meaning... Agreed. > ... and misuse of a word for personal gain is a morally questionable at best. Again, agreed, but where's the personal gain? How many additional people buy Macs because they call these people "evangelists"? Or, how many people are willing to work for Apple for lower pay because they're going to get the title of "evangelist"? I don't see the personal gain aspect of this. And that leaves me thinking that it's just a word that conveys enthusiasm, or possibly the bringing of good news, but it's just getting cute with a job title, with no moral dimensions.
      - touristtam 10y ago
        The personal gain on the side of the impersonal entity that is the company using it. By using such a loaded word, Apple (in this case, but apparently other companies have followed suit) is playing on the fact they are promoting their brand with a degree of "truth" attached to it. I am not sure what exactly truth they might be thinking, but their have surely entertained the meddling with a word that has strong religious and truth connotation. I might be reading too much in it, but I wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way. After all a techie crowd is bound to have strong opinions about the tools being used. :)

From a company that prides itself to be ethical (see the accessibility stuff and their ads), this is not cool. On the other hand, if it's legal why would they not do it.

tedunangst 10y ago

If one's legal tax bill is $0, how does one calculate one's ethical tax bill? Which form does one fill out to remit ethical taxes?

al452 10y ago
As far as I have been able to tell from the behaviour of those who believe this kind of thing, the correct authority to consult to determine ethical tax liability is the sub-editor in charge of writing headlines for whichever newspaper one reads.
nkkollaw 10y ago
You know, there are things that are legal, but you know are unethical and you don't do them. Refusing get up to let an elderly woman sit on the bus is not illegal, but you do it because it's the right thing to do. Apple go to great lengths to make their taxes 0, doing things that small businesses would never be able to do. If they didn't their taxes would be hundreds of millions. This—alongside depriving California and the States of money that could be used for the community—makes it unethical IMHO.

valuearb 10y ago

How is it ethical to take money from shareholders to pay extra taxes you and they don't owe?

touristtam 10y ago

I am questioning the ethical angle: A company that uses Evangelist as a title for a brand promoter should not be seen as ethical.

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
Using a hyperbolic title for a brand promoter is an ethical issue? Why?
- touristtam 10y ago
  Because words have meaning, and misuse of a word for personal gain is a morally questionable at best. This is the whole issue about marketing and advertisement: making you believe with pictures and words that the product being promoted is what you need at this moment.
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    > Because words have meaning... Agreed. > ... and misuse of a word for personal gain is a morally questionable at best. Again, agreed, but where's the personal gain? How many additional people buy Macs because they call these people "evangelists"? Or, how many people are willing to work for Apple for lower pay because they're going to get the title of "evangelist"? I don't see the personal gain aspect of this. And that leaves me thinking that it's just a word that conveys enthusiasm, or possibly the bringing of good news, but it's just getting cute with a job title, with no moral dimensions.
    - touristtam 10y ago
      The personal gain on the side of the impersonal entity that is the company using it. By using such a loaded word, Apple (in this case, but apparently other companies have followed suit) is playing on the fact they are promoting their brand with a degree of "truth" attached to it. I am not sure what exactly truth they might be thinking, but their have surely entertained the meddling with a word that has strong religious and truth connotation. I might be reading too much in it, but I wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way. After all a techie crowd is bound to have strong opinions about the tools being used. :)