5 ms·

Not trying to be a dick here, but for all of us that aren't responsible for institutional access control (frequent key changes, master systems) the lock is not

Not trying to be a dick here, but for all of us that aren't responsible for institutional access control (frequent key changes, master systems) the lock is not the weak link in your physical security and you're wasting effort and money worrying about it. If you are concerned about physical security, check door frames, windows, and thresholds (especially when lever locks are used). Crime doesn't happen because people pick locks.

emodendroket 10y ago
Strike plates are supposedly a good ROI
- tunap 10y ago
  With long lags that penetrate through the frame & multiple studs.
speeder 10y ago
You need to check walls too... I live in a third world country, security is very important, my house got people jumping inside at least 7 or 8 times, that we know... maybe it was more and we failed to notice. One year, while my family was out in a christmas trip, they decided to use the opportunity to actually get inside the house. The thing is, beside tall walls, dogs, electric, spears and razorwire, we also had solid brick walls, steel window frames with grates, steel windows, and all doors to the outside were two doors in the same frame, the internal one made of solid wood, and external one made of steel, frames also made of steel. The thieves instead just made a gigantic hole in our wall, until it was big enough to use power tools or something, then they destroyed the frame around the door locks (all our external-facing doors, both wood and steel, have 3 locks). So, the weakpoint was bad quality bricks, we alter tested and found out our bricks were so shitty that hitting them with a crowbar made them mostly instantly crumble, the guys probably did zero effort to destroy our wall, probably if they had the time it would been easier to make a door-shaped hole in our wall instead of cutting the steel frame.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- KennyCason 10y ago
  where do you live??
  - speeder 10y ago
    Brazil
- foobarian 10y ago
  You need to upgrade to obsidian blocks.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  My dad had this happen to a place he worked at in the 80s in the Bronx. The thieves drove a stolen car through the wall and took everything. Down to copper wire and pipes.
- PeterisP 10y ago
  Kind of makes sense - in my area, it's somewhat popular to install steel doors in apartments to dissuade breaking&entering by drug addicts; and apparently for local firefighters standard practice for breaching such doors when neccessary is to simply go through the wall next to the door, as it's not that hard, only noisy.
- PhantomGremlin 10y ago
  The thieves instead just made a gigantic hole in our wall Perhaps you're aware of Rhizome Manoeuvre. It's common in urban warfare to make holes in walls. Doors and windows are too often booby trapped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizome_Manoeuvre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizome_Manoeuvre
- aedron 10y ago
  My security strategy for our home is simple: Motion detectors and a bunch of huge freaking sirens. If someone enters when the system is on, the sirens will go off so loud that it is physically difficult to stay in the house. And of course thieves will need to worry about neighbors being alerted to the noise. (It also sends out SMSes, but I rely completely on it running off intruders well before they get to steal anything or anyone has to intervene.)
saycheese 10y ago
Yes, picking is a small percent, but failing to use the lock on a door or window is the number one way entry is gained [1]; point being if people locked doors, the numbers would likely be much higher given most burglars use one of the external doors at some point during a burglary. [1] https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf
- ghaff 10y ago
  I'm sure it's like a lot of security where attackers aren't necessarily after anyone in particular but will just go down the line until they find a soft target. I've been robbed a couple of times (long time ago). One time they did force open a (probably cheap) sliding door. But the other time a windows was ajar.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
surge 10y ago
Depends on the crime, yes, B&E's aren't generally done by people picking locks. But someone sneaking in, planting something or making a copy of something and sneaking out is a little harder to detect since generally there is little obvious forensic evidence of lock picking and generally police just chalk it up to you must have forgot to lock your doors when such crimes are investigated. IOW, there is no hard data to say either way. If you're protecting some one from stealing your TV or your concerned with smash and grabs, then yes, locks aren't generally your weak point, all though they can be. If you're worried about someone planting a RAT device in your network closet, or key logger on someone's PC, undetected, then yes, it's a concern.
- droopyEyelids 10y ago
  In the situation you describe video surveillance, not a fancier lock, is the answer.
  - jacobush 10y ago
    Depends on if you want them to abort the operation or have evidence they performed it.
ergothus 10y ago
My personal favorites are the offices that require some sort of card/keypad/technical approval to go through in one direction, but have a motion sensor to unlock it going the other way. I've gotten past these with a manilla folder (push through, it unfolds and triggers), and I've been told (untested by me) that motion sensors rely on bouncing an infrared beam, so they can be triggered by anything that makes a temperature change, such as a can of compressed air. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- theEXTORTCIST 10y ago
  obligatory 33s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9GbUCQhIfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9GbUCQhIfA Dave from trustedsec/Derbycon opens a sensor locked door (it led to a staff area) at the hotel marriott with a nicotine vaporizor
GuB-42 10y ago
Just go to the website (lock-lab.com). Even though this site is focused on locks and lock picking, the "home security" sections gives information that goes well beyond locks.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bb88 10y ago
I'm a little late to your reply. I agree with you in general that locks aren't the be-all/end-all in security. But, I don't feel your statement is completely correct. I can think of two reasons to have a good lock. 1. Not all insurance will cover theft unless there's evidence of a break-in. [1] This was a problem with the bump keys where no evidence of a break in was left, other than maybe some scratches on the face of the lock itself. 2. Padlocks, often including bike locks, can often be shimmed or raked easily. It's one thing to carry around a pair of large bolt cutters in downtown manhattan, it's another to carry a little shim in your pocket. [1]: http://united-locksmith.net/blog/8-security-measures-to-prevent-lock-bumping http://united-locksmith.net/blog/8-security-measures-to-prev...: "And a burglar that breaks in with a bump key shows no visible sign of forced entry, but further examination from an expert can determine if the pins were manipulated. Insurance companies may still be resistant in paying on a claim, even with a forensic locksmiths findings."

emodendroket 10y ago

Strike plates are supposedly a good ROI

tunap 10y ago
With long lags that penetrate through the frame & multiple studs.

speeder 10y ago

You need to check walls too... I live in a third world country, security is very important, my house got people jumping inside at least 7 or 8 times, that we know... maybe it was more and we failed to notice. One year, while my family was out in a christmas trip, they decided to use the opportunity to actually get inside the house. The thing is, beside tall walls, dogs, electric, spears and razorwire, we also had solid brick walls, steel window frames with grates, steel windows, and all doors to the outside were two doors in the same frame, the internal one made of solid wood, and external one made of steel, frames also made of steel. The thieves instead just made a gigantic hole in our wall, until it was big enough to use power tools or something, then they destroyed the frame around the door locks (all our external-facing doors, both wood and steel, have 3 locks). So, the weakpoint was bad quality bricks, we alter tested and found out our bricks were so shitty that hitting them with a crowbar made them mostly instantly crumble, the guys probably did zero effort to destroy our wall, probably if they had the time it would been easier to make a door-shaped hole in our wall instead of cutting the steel frame.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
KennyCason 10y ago
where do you live??
- speeder 10y ago
  Brazil
foobarian 10y ago
You need to upgrade to obsidian blocks.
Spooky23 10y ago
My dad had this happen to a place he worked at in the 80s in the Bronx. The thieves drove a stolen car through the wall and took everything. Down to copper wire and pipes.
PeterisP 10y ago
Kind of makes sense - in my area, it's somewhat popular to install steel doors in apartments to dissuade breaking&entering by drug addicts; and apparently for local firefighters standard practice for breaching such doors when neccessary is to simply go through the wall next to the door, as it's not that hard, only noisy.
PhantomGremlin 10y ago
The thieves instead just made a gigantic hole in our wall Perhaps you're aware of Rhizome Manoeuvre. It's common in urban warfare to make holes in walls. Doors and windows are too often booby trapped. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizome_Manoeuvre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizome_Manoeuvre
aedron 10y ago
My security strategy for our home is simple: Motion detectors and a bunch of huge freaking sirens. If someone enters when the system is on, the sirens will go off so loud that it is physically difficult to stay in the house. And of course thieves will need to worry about neighbors being alerted to the noise. (It also sends out SMSes, but I rely completely on it running off intruders well before they get to steal anything or anyone has to intervene.)

saycheese 10y ago

Yes, picking is a small percent, but failing to use the lock on a door or window is the number one way entry is gained [1]; point being if people locked doors, the numbers would likely be much higher given most burglars use one of the external doors at some point during a burglary. [1] https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf

ghaff 10y ago
I'm sure it's like a lot of security where attackers aren't necessarily after anyone in particular but will just go down the line until they find a soft target. I've been robbed a couple of times (long time ago). One time they did force open a (probably cheap) sliding door. But the other time a windows was ajar.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

surge 10y ago

Depends on the crime, yes, B&E's aren't generally done by people picking locks. But someone sneaking in, planting something or making a copy of something and sneaking out is a little harder to detect since generally there is little obvious forensic evidence of lock picking and generally police just chalk it up to you must have forgot to lock your doors when such crimes are investigated. IOW, there is no hard data to say either way. If you're protecting some one from stealing your TV or your concerned with smash and grabs, then yes, locks aren't generally your weak point, all though they can be. If you're worried about someone planting a RAT device in your network closet, or key logger on someone's PC, undetected, then yes, it's a concern.

droopyEyelids 10y ago
In the situation you describe video surveillance, not a fancier lock, is the answer.
- jacobush 10y ago
  Depends on if you want them to abort the operation or have evidence they performed it.

ergothus 10y ago

My personal favorites are the offices that require some sort of card/keypad/technical approval to go through in one direction, but have a motion sensor to unlock it going the other way. I've gotten past these with a manilla folder (push through, it unfolds and triggers), and I've been told (untested by me) that motion sensors rely on bouncing an infrared beam, so they can be triggered by anything that makes a temperature change, such as a can of compressed air. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
theEXTORTCIST 10y ago
obligatory 33s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9GbUCQhIfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9GbUCQhIfA Dave from trustedsec/Derbycon opens a sensor locked door (it led to a staff area) at the hotel marriott with a nicotine vaporizor

GuB-42 10y ago

Just go to the website (lock-lab.com). Even though this site is focused on locks and lock picking, the "home security" sections gives information that goes well beyond locks.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

bb88 10y ago

I'm a little late to your reply. I agree with you in general that locks aren't the be-all/end-all in security. But, I don't feel your statement is completely correct. I can think of two reasons to have a good lock. 1. Not all insurance will cover theft unless there's evidence of a break-in. [1] This was a problem with the bump keys where no evidence of a break in was left, other than maybe some scratches on the face of the lock itself. 2. Padlocks, often including bike locks, can often be shimmed or raked easily. It's one thing to carry around a pair of large bolt cutters in downtown manhattan, it's another to carry a little shim in your pocket. [1]: http://united-locksmith.net/blog/8-security-measures-to-prevent-lock-bumping http://united-locksmith.net/blog/8-security-measures-to-prev...: "And a burglar that breaks in with a bump key shows no visible sign of forced entry, but further examination from an expert can determine if the pins were manipulated. Insurance companies may still be resistant in paying on a claim, even with a forensic locksmiths findings."