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"Drawing from the 44 volumes of their letters and journals..." This has been commented on many times but never ceases to amaze me: The sheer bulk of correspond

by Jun8 10y ago

"Drawing from the 44 volumes of their letters and journals..." This has been commented on many times but never ceases to amaze me: The sheer bulk of correspondence, journals, and other writing educated people kept in earlier times.

simonsarris 10y ago
This has long fascinated me too. Reading the letters of Kafka or Darwin are some of my favorite "non-fiction." Though there are still dim analogues of correspondence today. "Drawing from the 600,000 texts and Facebook messages..." But we both know it's not the same. One of the reasons I try to write emails to my friends in a very letter-like fashion is because it provides a much more neat (And re-readable) experience. Highly recommended, even if you see the person all the time.
Amezarak 10y ago
I'm always shocked by how well-read they were. Teenage Jane Carlyle could have passed as a classics professor at an elite university in our time. One anecdote that stands out in Carlyle's Memoirs is that she had learned Latin well enough to understand and recite the Aeneid; as a game at nine years old, she recited Dido's speech from memory while burning a doll on a makeshift pyre. I'm sure Jane Carlyle was exceptional, but still, one gets this impression from most educated people from the time.
- casion 10y ago
  The thing is that we never hear about the high percentage of uneducated people. Those that couldn't read/write or were busy tending the fields never wrote anything, nor were they frequently written about by name. Well educated people these days are likely more well-read due to more resources, more history and more expectations. We stand on the shoulders of giants but still stand above them.
- kbenson 10y ago
  I imagine a good amount (but by no means all) of what we would consider "well read" was having the leisure time to read for pleasure. The contemporary version might be someone well versed in Lord of the Rings, or Star Trek, or Friends, or Firefly, or Gilmore Girls, or the works of Stephen King. To those that have aligned interests, or aspire to, knowledge of these topics may not quite signal "well read", but they will signal shared knowledge and interests, and a starting point for conversation. I think a big difference between now and then is that now there is so much more to consume. Go back 500 years, and you likely had to be a lord or in a monastery to have much to read (in the west), and the preponderance of that material was likely faith based in some respect (whether originally so or not). It would be interesting to see how much media of each type was available at different time periods.
- ashark 10y ago
  Relatively high amounts of free time plus cultural (class) expectations of what you'll do with it, minus the incredible on-demand availability of low-culture entertainment we have today. Given those circumstances and a half-decent mind and you're almost guaranteed to be amazingly (in modern estimation) accomplished at one or more of: (playing) music, board/card games, science, mathematics, languages, visual arts, and literature/letters. Imagine a world with no recorded anything except what's written on paper. Music? Someone near you has to be playing/singing it, or you won't get to hear it, which means a much higher demand for people who can play music somewhat well and more participation in music-making on average. Movies? TV? Ha. You mean theater or home recitation of verse or drama. Just try to go a year without recorded audio-visual entertainment, video games, or instant on-demand up-to-the-minute news, even without the benefit of a large passive income and with having to work for a living (unlike many of the notable 19th century intellectuals). I bet your activities in that time will look a hell of a lot more "cultured" and self-improving than usual. You might take up or get better with an instrument, build more things, see more live performances, brush up on your math skills, read more, get really good at cooking, draw (more), spend more time outdoors, play more sports and be more physically active in general, et c. If you live with others doing the same thing, after a month of evenings together reading e.g. Wordsworth or Homer or Milton aloud might start to seem like a really great idea. Broaden the circle of people doing this and maybe putting on a little small-cast performance of some Shakespeare begins to appeal. And so on. [EDIT] I should add no cars, no airplanes, trains common only from the mid-19th century. Way more walking and horse-riding or carriage use (for the rich) and a far smaller area in which one existed on a typical day, even for the wealthy (relative to modern wealthy people, at any rate).
metaphorm 10y ago
imagining printing out all of the e-mails and transcripts of phone calls you have with your friends, family, and lovers. I suspect we produce even more text now than they did in their own time, but we now rarely get to see the sheer volume of it.
6stringmerc 10y ago
Once you realize how little else there was to do for the past 200 years or so of 'civilized society' I think it fits perfectly. There were only so many "high" interests and hobbies. I wonder how large a warehouse I could fill with all my writings and chat logs since 1995. Phew.

by Jun8 10y ago

simonsarris 10y ago

This has long fascinated me too. Reading the letters of Kafka or Darwin are some of my favorite "non-fiction." Though there are still dim analogues of correspondence today. "Drawing from the 600,000 texts and Facebook messages..." But we both know it's not the same. One of the reasons I try to write emails to my friends in a very letter-like fashion is because it provides a much more neat (And re-readable) experience. Highly recommended, even if you see the person all the time.

Amezarak 10y ago

I'm always shocked by how well-read they were. Teenage Jane Carlyle could have passed as a classics professor at an elite university in our time. One anecdote that stands out in Carlyle's Memoirs is that she had learned Latin well enough to understand and recite the Aeneid; as a game at nine years old, she recited Dido's speech from memory while burning a doll on a makeshift pyre. I'm sure Jane Carlyle was exceptional, but still, one gets this impression from most educated people from the time.

casion 10y ago
The thing is that we never hear about the high percentage of uneducated people. Those that couldn't read/write or were busy tending the fields never wrote anything, nor were they frequently written about by name. Well educated people these days are likely more well-read due to more resources, more history and more expectations. We stand on the shoulders of giants but still stand above them.
kbenson 10y ago
I imagine a good amount (but by no means all) of what we would consider "well read" was having the leisure time to read for pleasure. The contemporary version might be someone well versed in Lord of the Rings, or Star Trek, or Friends, or Firefly, or Gilmore Girls, or the works of Stephen King. To those that have aligned interests, or aspire to, knowledge of these topics may not quite signal "well read", but they will signal shared knowledge and interests, and a starting point for conversation. I think a big difference between now and then is that now there is so much more to consume. Go back 500 years, and you likely had to be a lord or in a monastery to have much to read (in the west), and the preponderance of that material was likely faith based in some respect (whether originally so or not). It would be interesting to see how much media of each type was available at different time periods.
ashark 10y ago
Relatively high amounts of free time plus cultural (class) expectations of what you'll do with it, minus the incredible on-demand availability of low-culture entertainment we have today. Given those circumstances and a half-decent mind and you're almost guaranteed to be amazingly (in modern estimation) accomplished at one or more of: (playing) music, board/card games, science, mathematics, languages, visual arts, and literature/letters. Imagine a world with no recorded anything except what's written on paper. Music? Someone near you has to be playing/singing it, or you won't get to hear it, which means a much higher demand for people who can play music somewhat well and more participation in music-making on average. Movies? TV? Ha. You mean theater or home recitation of verse or drama. Just try to go a year without recorded audio-visual entertainment, video games, or instant on-demand up-to-the-minute news, even without the benefit of a large passive income and with having to work for a living (unlike many of the notable 19th century intellectuals). I bet your activities in that time will look a hell of a lot more "cultured" and self-improving than usual. You might take up or get better with an instrument, build more things, see more live performances, brush up on your math skills, read more, get really good at cooking, draw (more), spend more time outdoors, play more sports and be more physically active in general, et c. If you live with others doing the same thing, after a month of evenings together reading e.g. Wordsworth or Homer or Milton aloud might start to seem like a really great idea. Broaden the circle of people doing this and maybe putting on a little small-cast performance of some Shakespeare begins to appeal. And so on. [EDIT] I should add no cars, no airplanes, trains common only from the mid-19th century. Way more walking and horse-riding or carriage use (for the rich) and a far smaller area in which one existed on a typical day, even for the wealthy (relative to modern wealthy people, at any rate).

metaphorm 10y ago

imagining printing out all of the e-mails and transcripts of phone calls you have with your friends, family, and lovers. I suspect we produce even more text now than they did in their own time, but we now rarely get to see the sheer volume of it.

6stringmerc 10y ago

Once you realize how little else there was to do for the past 200 years or so of 'civilized society' I think it fits perfectly. There were only so many "high" interests and hobbies. I wonder how large a warehouse I could fill with all my writings and chat logs since 1995. Phew.