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Google[1], Apple[2] and Dyson[3] (ok, not quite London) are making quite big noises about big new offices, so I guess things can't be that bad? Possibly they're

by zelos 10y ago

Google[1], Apple[2] and Dyson[3] (ok, not quite London) are making quite big noises about big new offices, so I guess things can't be that bad? Possibly they're betting on picking up lots of tech staff cheap if the banks start leaving London? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/15/google-commits-to-massive-new-london-hq https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/15/google-co... [2] http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/revealed-apple-to-create-stunning-new-hq-at-battersea-power-station-a3356201.html http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/revealed-apple-to-crea... [3] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-39117982 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-39117982

hueving 10y ago
The big companies that already have a presence in multiple European cities won't have a big impact on staff. Take Google for example, people staying in London can keep working at that office, people that want to leave (or are forced to leave) can work in many of the other European locations (e.g. Berlin, Paris, Zurich, Vienna). Smaller tech companies will probably be hit the hardest if they only have a London presence and they lose half of their employees. Depending on the employee composition, it may even make sense to move the company entirely to another country in Europe.
- cjrp 10y ago
  > Depending on the employee composition, it may even make sense to move the company entirely to another country in Europe. Similarly, if you're starting a company it probably makes sense to make Berlin or somewhere like that your home. Why risk potentially having your supply of engineers reduced dramatically post-Brexit? Funding could start to dry up in the UK for the same reason.
  - corford 10y ago
    If I was incorporating in Europe today and didn't need SEIS/EIS I'd definitely at least look at Ireland, Germany, Malta and Estonia before automatically picking the UK. The criteria would be something like: 1). Is it easy to do most company filing work, taxes, VAT etc. on-line 2). Is it easy to open a business bank account there 3). Are investors familiar with that country 4). Is the required paid up share capital on incorporation small 5). Is the process quick (and corporate tax rate & legal compliance burden not too onerous)
    - cjrp 10y ago
      Lower corporation tax too.
- zigzigzag 10y ago
  Why would they lose half their employees? The only way Brexit involves people being forced to leave where they live is if the EU forces it to happen. The UK has already said many times it wants to take that possibility off the table as soon as possible.
  - zelos 10y ago
    Assuming that the UK does end up with tighter immigration controls from the EU, getting staff in future is going to be harder, even if those already here aren't forced to leave. Whether those controls will actually make any difference to highly-educated, well-paid, in-demand employees like software developers, I don't know.
    - zigzigzag 10y ago
      Software developers of various kinds are actually on the UK government list of "professions with a shortage", meaning they get immigration priority. (note: not _all_ developers, the list goes into particular backgrounds and specialities).
      - denis1 10y ago
        While developers might get "priority" immigration you still have more overhead compared to the "no fuss, just find a place to rent" deal those developers would get in other European countries. For example, I would consider UK after brexit only if I get a substantially better deal than anywhere else in Europe. Otherwise it is just not worth going through the "immigration" process.
  - urbanj 10y ago
    > The UK has already said many times it wants to take that possibility off the table as soon as possible. Words are cheap. If they really wanted to do it, they would have done it already. I guess you're also expecting the NHS to get £350 million a week extra soon.
  - cmdkeen 10y ago
    There are also all sorts of legal barriers to kicking out people who have been in the UK for any length of time. It simply isn't the case that there are going to be millions of people forced to leave. Future immigration policy will need to be decided - I can't see a scenario in which talented Europeans who want to work in the UK are going to be turned away. More interesting will be what happens to tech immigration from the rest of world. It is entirely possible that we end up with easier immigration to/from North America as a result.
andrewingram 10y ago
James Dyson was pro-Brexit anyway, so that might affect whether you consider Dyson (the business) to be a meaningful data point.
lostboys67 10y ago
Probably not as London is a cheap source for native english speaking engineering resource - compare the starting salary's in London vs SV
buro9 10y ago
Google was planned before the referendum. Dyson is pro-brexit and has had a problem with having enough office space for a while (so probably unrelated to timing of referendum but making noise because it supports his position). Apple are the only one who are new in that list, and it may just be a consolidation of existing office space.
- gsnedders 10y ago
  > Apple are the only one who are new in that list, and it may just be a consolidation of existing office space. AFAIK that's largely it; I don't know how much of this is expansion, but it's certainly mostly about getting their 1400 employees in/around London in a single space (with all the simplification of security, etc. that entails). It's worth pointing out that AFAIK the majority of those employees ultimately come from other companies that Apple has acquired over the years, hence the disparate offices.

by zelos 10y ago

hueving 10y ago

The big companies that already have a presence in multiple European cities won't have a big impact on staff. Take Google for example, people staying in London can keep working at that office, people that want to leave (or are forced to leave) can work in many of the other European locations (e.g. Berlin, Paris, Zurich, Vienna). Smaller tech companies will probably be hit the hardest if they only have a London presence and they lose half of their employees. Depending on the employee composition, it may even make sense to move the company entirely to another country in Europe.

cjrp 10y ago
> Depending on the employee composition, it may even make sense to move the company entirely to another country in Europe. Similarly, if you're starting a company it probably makes sense to make Berlin or somewhere like that your home. Why risk potentially having your supply of engineers reduced dramatically post-Brexit? Funding could start to dry up in the UK for the same reason.
- corford 10y ago
  If I was incorporating in Europe today and didn't need SEIS/EIS I'd definitely at least look at Ireland, Germany, Malta and Estonia before automatically picking the UK. The criteria would be something like: 1). Is it easy to do most company filing work, taxes, VAT etc. on-line 2). Is it easy to open a business bank account there 3). Are investors familiar with that country 4). Is the required paid up share capital on incorporation small 5). Is the process quick (and corporate tax rate & legal compliance burden not too onerous)
  - cjrp 10y ago
    Lower corporation tax too.
zigzigzag 10y ago
Why would they lose half their employees? The only way Brexit involves people being forced to leave where they live is if the EU forces it to happen. The UK has already said many times it wants to take that possibility off the table as soon as possible.
- zelos 10y ago
  Assuming that the UK does end up with tighter immigration controls from the EU, getting staff in future is going to be harder, even if those already here aren't forced to leave. Whether those controls will actually make any difference to highly-educated, well-paid, in-demand employees like software developers, I don't know.
  - zigzigzag 10y ago
    Software developers of various kinds are actually on the UK government list of "professions with a shortage", meaning they get immigration priority. (note: not _all_ developers, the list goes into particular backgrounds and specialities).
    - denis1 10y ago
      While developers might get "priority" immigration you still have more overhead compared to the "no fuss, just find a place to rent" deal those developers would get in other European countries. For example, I would consider UK after brexit only if I get a substantially better deal than anywhere else in Europe. Otherwise it is just not worth going through the "immigration" process.
- urbanj 10y ago
  > The UK has already said many times it wants to take that possibility off the table as soon as possible. Words are cheap. If they really wanted to do it, they would have done it already. I guess you're also expecting the NHS to get £350 million a week extra soon.
- cmdkeen 10y ago
  There are also all sorts of legal barriers to kicking out people who have been in the UK for any length of time. It simply isn't the case that there are going to be millions of people forced to leave. Future immigration policy will need to be decided - I can't see a scenario in which talented Europeans who want to work in the UK are going to be turned away. More interesting will be what happens to tech immigration from the rest of world. It is entirely possible that we end up with easier immigration to/from North America as a result.

andrewingram 10y ago

James Dyson was pro-Brexit anyway, so that might affect whether you consider Dyson (the business) to be a meaningful data point.

lostboys67 10y ago

Probably not as London is a cheap source for native english speaking engineering resource - compare the starting salary's in London vs SV

buro9 10y ago

Google was planned before the referendum. Dyson is pro-brexit and has had a problem with having enough office space for a while (so probably unrelated to timing of referendum but making noise because it supports his position). Apple are the only one who are new in that list, and it may just be a consolidation of existing office space.

gsnedders 10y ago
> Apple are the only one who are new in that list, and it may just be a consolidation of existing office space. AFAIK that's largely it; I don't know how much of this is expansion, but it's certainly mostly about getting their 1400 employees in/around London in a single space (with all the simplification of security, etc. that entails). It's worth pointing out that AFAIK the majority of those employees ultimately come from other companies that Apple has acquired over the years, hence the disparate offices.