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> ...requires embodiment, that they have a physical body in space through which they connect to the world. I don't believe either of these are necessary require

> ...requires embodiment, that they have a physical body in space through which they connect to the world. I don't believe either of these are necessary requirements for AI. This is very interesting. In the human realm, there is the celebrated case history example of Helen Keller, who progressively developed her blindness and deafness over a period of years. She would arguably "pass" whatever tests that were administered for evaluating a strong AI. However, walking backwards from that, towards case histories where patients were born deaf and blind, they also could pass those kinds of tests. But add more sensory disabilities, and it becomes murkier. Has anyone performed a detailed survey of medical histories? Is there a point beyond which lack of a specific set of senses leads to sapience incapacitation 100% of documented instances in humans? Could that be a promising lead to build a virtual environment that simulates a minimum threshold of senses?

000000000000000 10y ago
Also, AIs are not constrained by senses shared with humans. Our information passing is mediated by few inputs — a stream of light as a matrix within a very narrow range of possible spectra; a stream of air pressure decoded into frequency series; touch etc. AIs could have many more modes of input and output. Also… it seems weird to consider having “human” inputs embodied but having direct access to information stored elsewhere as not — surely there’s disk platters, SSDs and other devices existing in the real world, no?
- yourapostasy 10y ago
  Absolutely correct, more senses are definitely available to an AGI. In the context of building an AGI that possesses "like a human" implied or directly in the evaluation criteria, and the thesis that embodiment of senses is a prerequisite to fulfilling that criteria, we don't know whether or not more senses than human might thwart the development of the first AGI. We currently believe that more senses than "normal" tends to lead to neuro-atypical development like autism, so there is some evidence for caution against tossing in all the inputs we can imagine, based upon current thinking (I wonder if that thinking is based upon empirical fMRI scans). We do have the corpus of data built up by humans however, that says "no known cases in medical history of sapience failing to develop with this minimal set of senses". My cursory search says hearing and sight are not necessary. Leaving us with smell, taste, and touch. Smell and taste are closely interlinked, so there is a possibility that a simulated smell-taste and touch are all that is required to "bootstrap" the first AGI, so to speak. Your point recalls to mind the scene in Battlestar Galactica (the reboot) where Cavil fulminates "I don't want to be human". [1] I suspect once we boostrap the first AGI, you are absolutely correct, we will rapidly add more senses to the AGI's repertoire. But we only have one data point for a template to build AGI off of, ourselves, so I also suspect the first AGI will somewhat resemble us. If so, and if the embodiment principle is one of the right routes to take, then it makes sense to me to simulate what we empirically determine as the minimum sense set, and then expand from there. Walk before we run, so to speak. It wouldn't hurt for someone investigating the embodiment principle to build for as many senses as they can envision, though. Many eyes, and all that, for attacking the problem space. I'm just expressing an uninformed gut feeling here, as I am not in the AI research space. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3CptVZDYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3CptVZDYU

000000000000000 10y ago

Also, AIs are not constrained by senses shared with humans. Our information passing is mediated by few inputs — a stream of light as a matrix within a very narrow range of possible spectra; a stream of air pressure decoded into frequency series; touch etc. AIs could have many more modes of input and output. Also… it seems weird to consider having “human” inputs embodied but having direct access to information stored elsewhere as not — surely there’s disk platters, SSDs and other devices existing in the real world, no?

yourapostasy 10y ago
Absolutely correct, more senses are definitely available to an AGI. In the context of building an AGI that possesses "like a human" implied or directly in the evaluation criteria, and the thesis that embodiment of senses is a prerequisite to fulfilling that criteria, we don't know whether or not more senses than human might thwart the development of the first AGI. We currently believe that more senses than "normal" tends to lead to neuro-atypical development like autism, so there is some evidence for caution against tossing in all the inputs we can imagine, based upon current thinking (I wonder if that thinking is based upon empirical fMRI scans). We do have the corpus of data built up by humans however, that says "no known cases in medical history of sapience failing to develop with this minimal set of senses". My cursory search says hearing and sight are not necessary. Leaving us with smell, taste, and touch. Smell and taste are closely interlinked, so there is a possibility that a simulated smell-taste and touch are all that is required to "bootstrap" the first AGI, so to speak. Your point recalls to mind the scene in Battlestar Galactica (the reboot) where Cavil fulminates "I don't want to be human". [1] I suspect once we boostrap the first AGI, you are absolutely correct, we will rapidly add more senses to the AGI's repertoire. But we only have one data point for a template to build AGI off of, ourselves, so I also suspect the first AGI will somewhat resemble us. If so, and if the embodiment principle is one of the right routes to take, then it makes sense to me to simulate what we empirically determine as the minimum sense set, and then expand from there. Walk before we run, so to speak. It wouldn't hurt for someone investigating the embodiment principle to build for as many senses as they can envision, though. Many eyes, and all that, for attacking the problem space. I'm just expressing an uninformed gut feeling here, as I am not in the AI research space. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3CptVZDYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM3CptVZDYU