4 ms·

The term food industry just feels wrong to me.

by a_imho 10y ago

ehnto 10y ago
That's what it is and frankly, that's what's required too. We have too many people to be able sustain them all with cutesy farm to table ensembles and home grown vegetables.
- tracker1 10y ago
  Agreed.. I'm not anti-grower, or anti-gmo... the cost/benefit of "organic" is dubious at best (aside from some berries, iirc). But man, the balance has to shift at least a little... we really need to move away from highly refined/pre-prepared everything, every meal, lots of snacks, lots of sugars, every day. Edit: I also know a world-class chef who agrees that the McRib is one of the most tasty things ever developed. But you don't eat that every day...
- fidrelity 10y ago
  The Rodale Institute[1] has a long running trial comparing different farming systems. In the long run organic farming outperforms "conventional" methods in terms of yield, resilience and cost[2]. If you believe their research that is. [1] https://rodaleinstitute.org/ https://rodaleinstitute.org/ [2] https://rodaleinstitute.org/assets/FST-Brochure-2015.pdf https://rodaleinstitute.org/assets/FST-Brochure-2015.pdf
- lawless123 10y ago
  >We have too many people to be able sustain them all with cutesy farm to table ensembles and home grown vegetables. We would have plenty only so many want to eat meat with every meal.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >That's what it is and frankly, that's what's required too. We have too many people to be able sustain them all with cutesy farm to table ensembles and home grown vegetables. Citation needed. It's not like we'd have some food crisis if we didn't have a "food industry", by which people usually mean the actively harmful and inducing food staff that's mass manufactured, you know the 20,000 mass market varieties of sodas, chips, snacks, burgers and such. If you just mean "agriculture at scale", we had that since ancient Babylon. In fact, outside of floods and famines that are orthogonal to what we're talking about, many countries do just fine feeding their populations with 1/10 or 1/20 of such an industry as it exists in the US.
tracker1 10y ago
Diet Industry, Snack Industry, Soda Inc... what would you prefer... when most people are eating processed and or pre-prepared foods, things aren't good. And imho things like hamburger helper aren't very far off. I ate a lot of food that came from cans, boxes and packages growing up.. and today its' far worse... I know a lot of people around my age (early 40's) who never eat any vegetables at all. none... Unless it's filler in something else they're eating. Lots of refined starches, more than enough meat... but very few actual veggies. I mean, I'm not all about the veggies, I'm far from getting enough every day (per whatever standards), but I at least get 4-5 salads a week, and have at least 3-4 other times with at least a vegetable side that aren't starches (root-veg) a week. But man, there's something to be said for going from at least some, to almost none. I'll admit, I do tend to favor lower-carb (I'm diabetic, I really have to), but the anti-fat fads of the late 70's through the 90's did more harm than good. Compounded by the proliferation of snack items and refined fats (mostly vegetable source), starches, preservatives, fillers and stabilizers is astounding. I no longer have any children living with me, but I can't believe the number of ads for foods that aren't whole or at least minimally processed on TV, targeting kids... "fruit rollups", gellies, gogurt, soda, pops, drinks, fast-food and the rest... It's time to start saying no to kids, no to ourselves and trying to lead by better examples. Another issue is thinness !== healthy. Metabolic syndrome is really dangerous when you don't show the typical outward symptoms right away. Body shaming doesn't work... We, as a larger society need to start making better choices for ourselves. And I say this as someone who has McD's for breakfast pretty much every day (breakfast sandwich, sometimes just an egg and sausage, no bun with a water to drink). If you eat fast-food, skip the side of fries and the sugar-water. Hell, use a calorie tracker for a week, and be surprised how much you really take in (including snacks, drinks, etc)... it can actually be hard to take in under 2500 kcal a day.
Toine 10y ago
Tech people know how hard it is to scale things. More precisely, we know how hard it is to maintain quality (of code for example) in an environment where quantity increases rapidly. Take a look at this graph : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Human_population_growth_from_1800_to_2000.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Human_populat... The industrial era. What happened in the last 50 years is that the quality/quantity ratio went to almost zero. Industries now produce a LOT of stuff for a LOT of people, but the quality of this stuff is insanely low, food included. Industrial food is sometimes void of anything good for your health. In my view we have two options : rebalance the quality/quantity ratio, ie make a LOT of stuff of quality, or if we can't, drastically reduce the quantity of stuff needed. I let you imagine the consequences of the second option. I'm optimistic, but scared.
- tracker1 10y ago
  Fortunately, at a macro level.. something like 70-80% of what we take in are purely caloric needs... I mean, under 100g of sugars a day, and over 80-120g of protein.. but otherwise, for the most part calories are calories. We do need to reduce the amount of refined sugars, starches and fats in our diets, and increase the amount of raw vegetables and fruit... I'm not talking a veggie/vegan diet.. but having some mix, and keeping some things in that above/below block. Adjusting for special dietary needs (diabetes, allergies, pku etc).
  - blacksmith_tb 10y ago
    80-120g of protein per day is on the high end of the spectrum, the minimum values are typically given as 46g for women, 56g for me[1] (unless you are a competitive athlete). Not to mention that switching away from animal protein sources is potentially a good idea[2]... 1: http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/usda-protein-requirements-grams-8619.html http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/usda-protein-requirements-gr... 2: http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/plant-protein-may-decrease-risk-of-death http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/plant-protein-...
    - tracker1 10y ago

The term food industry just feels wrong to me.

by a_imho 10y ago

The term food industry just feels wrong to me.

ehnto 10y ago

That's what it is and frankly, that's what's required too. We have too many people to be able sustain them all with cutesy farm to table ensembles and home grown vegetables.

tracker1 10y ago
Agreed.. I'm not anti-grower, or anti-gmo... the cost/benefit of "organic" is dubious at best (aside from some berries, iirc). But man, the balance has to shift at least a little... we really need to move away from highly refined/pre-prepared everything, every meal, lots of snacks, lots of sugars, every day. Edit: I also know a world-class chef who agrees that the McRib is one of the most tasty things ever developed. But you don't eat that every day...
fidrelity 10y ago
The Rodale Institute[1] has a long running trial comparing different farming systems. In the long run organic farming outperforms "conventional" methods in terms of yield, resilience and cost[2]. If you believe their research that is. [1] https://rodaleinstitute.org/ https://rodaleinstitute.org/ [2] https://rodaleinstitute.org/assets/FST-Brochure-2015.pdf https://rodaleinstitute.org/assets/FST-Brochure-2015.pdf
lawless123 10y ago
>We have too many people to be able sustain them all with cutesy farm to table ensembles and home grown vegetables. We would have plenty only so many want to eat meat with every meal.
coldtea 10y ago
>That's what it is and frankly, that's what's required too. We have too many people to be able sustain them all with cutesy farm to table ensembles and home grown vegetables. Citation needed. It's not like we'd have some food crisis if we didn't have a "food industry", by which people usually mean the actively harmful and inducing food staff that's mass manufactured, you know the 20,000 mass market varieties of sodas, chips, snacks, burgers and such. If you just mean "agriculture at scale", we had that since ancient Babylon. In fact, outside of floods and famines that are orthogonal to what we're talking about, many countries do just fine feeding their populations with 1/10 or 1/20 of such an industry as it exists in the US.

tracker1 10y ago

Diet Industry, Snack Industry, Soda Inc... what would you prefer... when most people are eating processed and or pre-prepared foods, things aren't good. And imho things like hamburger helper aren't very far off. I ate a lot of food that came from cans, boxes and packages growing up.. and today its' far worse... I know a lot of people around my age (early 40's) who never eat any vegetables at all. none... Unless it's filler in something else they're eating. Lots of refined starches, more than enough meat... but very few actual veggies. I mean, I'm not all about the veggies, I'm far from getting enough every day (per whatever standards), but I at least get 4-5 salads a week, and have at least 3-4 other times with at least a vegetable side that aren't starches (root-veg) a week. But man, there's something to be said for going from at least some, to almost none. I'll admit, I do tend to favor lower-carb (I'm diabetic, I really have to), but the anti-fat fads of the late 70's through the 90's did more harm than good. Compounded by the proliferation of snack items and refined fats (mostly vegetable source), starches, preservatives, fillers and stabilizers is astounding. I no longer have any children living with me, but I can't believe the number of ads for foods that aren't whole or at least minimally processed on TV, targeting kids... "fruit rollups", gellies, gogurt, soda, pops, drinks, fast-food and the rest... It's time to start saying no to kids, no to ourselves and trying to lead by better examples. Another issue is thinness !== healthy. Metabolic syndrome is really dangerous when you don't show the typical outward symptoms right away. Body shaming doesn't work... We, as a larger society need to start making better choices for ourselves. And I say this as someone who has McD's for breakfast pretty much every day (breakfast sandwich, sometimes just an egg and sausage, no bun with a water to drink). If you eat fast-food, skip the side of fries and the sugar-water. Hell, use a calorie tracker for a week, and be surprised how much you really take in (including snacks, drinks, etc)... it can actually be hard to take in under 2500 kcal a day.

Toine 10y ago

Tech people know how hard it is to scale things. More precisely, we know how hard it is to maintain quality (of code for example) in an environment where quantity increases rapidly. Take a look at this graph : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Human_population_growth_from_1800_to_2000.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3a/Human_populat... The industrial era. What happened in the last 50 years is that the quality/quantity ratio went to almost zero. Industries now produce a LOT of stuff for a LOT of people, but the quality of this stuff is insanely low, food included. Industrial food is sometimes void of anything good for your health. In my view we have two options : rebalance the quality/quantity ratio, ie make a LOT of stuff of quality, or if we can't, drastically reduce the quantity of stuff needed. I let you imagine the consequences of the second option. I'm optimistic, but scared.

tracker1 10y ago
Fortunately, at a macro level.. something like 70-80% of what we take in are purely caloric needs... I mean, under 100g of sugars a day, and over 80-120g of protein.. but otherwise, for the most part calories are calories. We do need to reduce the amount of refined sugars, starches and fats in our diets, and increase the amount of raw vegetables and fruit... I'm not talking a veggie/vegan diet.. but having some mix, and keeping some things in that above/below block. Adjusting for special dietary needs (diabetes, allergies, pku etc).
- blacksmith_tb 10y ago
  80-120g of protein per day is on the high end of the spectrum, the minimum values are typically given as 46g for women, 56g for me[1] (unless you are a competitive athlete). Not to mention that switching away from animal protein sources is potentially a good idea[2]... 1: http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/usda-protein-requirements-grams-8619.html http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/usda-protein-requirements-gr... 2: http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/plant-protein-may-decrease-risk-of-death http://www.eufic.org/en/whats-in-food/article/plant-protein-...
  - tracker1 10y ago