7 ms·

Story of the Mexican Fisherman

38 points by ctingom 19y ago

mynameishere 19y ago
By most accounts some (not all) but some primitive people had quite pleasant, stress-free lives. The African pygmies, for instance, supposedly only hunted a few hours out of the week and otherwise lolled about, quite happily. But most Africans of that type were wiped out by the Bantu. The problem, of course, is that the survival (and expansion) of the fittest kicks in. Eventually, the people willing to putter around in an open boat are bought out, undersold, or otherwise replaced by fishing companies. Then, land by the shore hits 500K per quarter acre as people with hardworking jobs push up the price.
- pchristensen 19y ago
  I heard that the problem with the pygmies hunting for 10 hours a week was that this figure was noted by anthropologists that were driving the pygmies around in trucks!
- bocajuniors 19y ago
  survival of the fittest? hunter/gatherers were replaced by settlers largely because of lack of resistance for deceases spread from animals to settlers. pretty painful way of becoming fitter and quite odd way of defining the word.
  - mynameishere 19y ago
    What do you think Darwinian fitness is?
    - bocajuniors 19y ago
      i am fully aware of what it means, which i think is obvious from what i wrote.what i was trying to communicate was that it was a step backwards for most people in most ways which makes it misleading to speak of fitness.of course you can argue that societies takes the place of organisms in this case but i think the term would be misleading even then, since it happened quite circumstantial
- curi 19y ago
  http://notexactlyrocketscience.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/short-lives-short-size-why-are-pygmies-small/ http://notexactlyrocketscience.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/shor... still wish you were a pygmie?
  - Tichy 19y ago
    Interesting, however, the following quote makes me suspect the researchers made the usual error of using average life expectancy, which is very distorted because of high child mortality. Would be interesting to see more precise numbers. "Pygmies around the world are short in life expectancy as well as height, with the average adult dying at 16-24 years of age. Only 30-50% of children survive to the age of 15 and less than a third of women live to see menopause at 37."
prakash 19y ago
reminds me of Steve Pavlina's latest article: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/03/the-most-direct-solution-to-any-problem/ http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/03/the-most-direct-sol...
breck 19y ago
Something I've always wondered, is if the biggest requirement for being an internet entrepreneur is a computer and internet connection, are there a lot of hackers/programmers living in Mexico/the Caribbean?
- tim2 19y ago
  The biggest requirement is having encouragement from people around you or examples of success that seem achievable. Without these, hacking isn't so alluring.
  - edw519 19y ago
    I would amend that to "The biggest requirement is having encouragement from within". Without that, people around you won't make much difference. Hacking has always been VERY alluring to me, no matter what anyone else thought. I started long ago, before it was cool.
- mattmaroon 19y ago
  Well, it also requires the ability to spend a lot of time writing code. There aren't a lot of Mexicans who really work a few hours a day and spend the rest of their time in leisure. Most of them work very hard and just barely scrape by.
Darmani 19y ago
This is an adaptation of the short story "Anecdote on the Decline of the Work Ethic" (German: "Anekdote zur Senkung der Arbeitsmoral") by Heinrich Böll. I would highly recommend the original over this, but I unfortunately can't find a good translation of it. Still, for those who read German...
- patrocles 19y ago
  Awesome; habe das vorher gelesen, aber habe ich doch den Titel vergessen.
utnick 19y ago
If you liked this story you should really pick up the 4 hr work week.
patrocles 19y ago
When savings have zero value, not working makes sense. Enforceable property rights matter... and so does a stable economy....
Prrometheus 19y ago
I hated this parable the last time I read it too. It’s sloppy. It’s based on the false premise that there is no difference between a pauper lounging on the beach and a millionaire lounging on the beach. However, the millionaire’s life has a lot less risk. He has a longer life expectancy, and so do his loved ones, because he can afford quality food and access to medical care. He lives in sturdier dwellings that are more robust against storms. He can afford an education for his children. He can help others who are in need. He can put his money to use to build cool and interesting things. The fisherman is one unexpected disaster away from death. He, his children, and his wife are powerless in the face of a risky world. I suppose it is noble that he is able to stay content when his children die of preventable diseases, but I am sure he would rather be saved from doing so. If the fisherman extended the effort suggested by the MBA, he wouldn’t be back at square one as the parable suggests. Rather he would be in a new place, one that I would find preferable. Rubbish. Again.
- gruseom 19y ago
  You're right, if one takes the parable literally. No doubt very few subsistence fishermen would recognize themselves in the story. But I suspect that, like most parables, this one isn't meant to be taken literally. It's illustrating a psychological point, the folly of treating life as a means to an end. There's great risk in devoting one's life to something not for its own sake but because one assumes that, somehow later, happiness will result. I appreciate the parable because, like many people, I need to be reminded to examine that assumption.
  - motoko 19y ago
    Personally, I prefer to redefine "success" to be whatever I already have, thus at all times am I am a success!
    - kirubakaran 19y ago
      Well, success actually is the ability to be able to redefine "success" to be whatever you already have. So, you succeeded there too.
gabrielroth 19y ago
Ah, those adorable happy poor people in less developed countries. So much time to relax and enjoy life! Overfishing, consolidation in the fishing industry, inadequate health care, rising grain prices (which in the past couple years have caused tortilla prices to double), crime ... none of these could possibly affect the happiest people in the world, the fishermen of Mexico! Let's all move down there and buy fishing boats! Surely there are enough fish to feed all our families, forever!

38 points by ctingom 19y ago

By most accounts some (not all) but some primitive people had quite pleasant, stress-free lives. The African pygmies, for instance, supposedly only hunted a few hours out of the week and otherwise lolled about, quite happily. But most Africans of that type were wiped out by the Bantu. The problem, of course, is that the survival (and expansion) of the fittest kicks in. Eventually, the people willing to putter around in an open boat are bought out, undersold, or otherwise replaced by fishing companies. Then, land by the shore hits 500K per quarter acre as people with hardworking jobs push up the price.

pchristensen 19y ago
I heard that the problem with the pygmies hunting for 10 hours a week was that this figure was noted by anthropologists that were driving the pygmies around in trucks!
bocajuniors 19y ago
survival of the fittest? hunter/gatherers were replaced by settlers largely because of lack of resistance for deceases spread from animals to settlers. pretty painful way of becoming fitter and quite odd way of defining the word.
- mynameishere 19y ago
  What do you think Darwinian fitness is?
  - bocajuniors 19y ago
    i am fully aware of what it means, which i think is obvious from what i wrote.what i was trying to communicate was that it was a step backwards for most people in most ways which makes it misleading to speak of fitness.of course you can argue that societies takes the place of organisms in this case but i think the term would be misleading even then, since it happened quite circumstantial
curi 19y ago
http://notexactlyrocketscience.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/short-lives-short-size-why-are-pygmies-small/ http://notexactlyrocketscience.wordpress.com/2007/12/19/shor... still wish you were a pygmie?
- Tichy 19y ago
  Interesting, however, the following quote makes me suspect the researchers made the usual error of using average life expectancy, which is very distorted because of high child mortality. Would be interesting to see more precise numbers. "Pygmies around the world are short in life expectancy as well as height, with the average adult dying at 16-24 years of age. Only 30-50% of children survive to the age of 15 and less than a third of women live to see menopause at 37."

prakash 19y ago

reminds me of Steve Pavlina's latest article: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/03/the-most-direct-solution-to-any-problem/ http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/03/the-most-direct-sol...

breck 19y ago

Something I've always wondered, is if the biggest requirement for being an internet entrepreneur is a computer and internet connection, are there a lot of hackers/programmers living in Mexico/the Caribbean?

tim2 19y ago
The biggest requirement is having encouragement from people around you or examples of success that seem achievable. Without these, hacking isn't so alluring.
- edw519 19y ago
  I would amend that to "The biggest requirement is having encouragement from within". Without that, people around you won't make much difference. Hacking has always been VERY alluring to me, no matter what anyone else thought. I started long ago, before it was cool.
mattmaroon 19y ago
Well, it also requires the ability to spend a lot of time writing code. There aren't a lot of Mexicans who really work a few hours a day and spend the rest of their time in leisure. Most of them work very hard and just barely scrape by.

Darmani 19y ago

This is an adaptation of the short story "Anecdote on the Decline of the Work Ethic" (German: "Anekdote zur Senkung der Arbeitsmoral") by Heinrich Böll. I would highly recommend the original over this, but I unfortunately can't find a good translation of it. Still, for those who read German...

patrocles 19y ago
Awesome; habe das vorher gelesen, aber habe ich doch den Titel vergessen.

utnick 19y ago

If you liked this story you should really pick up the 4 hr work week.

patrocles 19y ago

When savings have zero value, not working makes sense. Enforceable property rights matter... and so does a stable economy....

Prrometheus 19y ago

I hated this parable the last time I read it too. It’s sloppy. It’s based on the false premise that there is no difference between a pauper lounging on the beach and a millionaire lounging on the beach. However, the millionaire’s life has a lot less risk. He has a longer life expectancy, and so do his loved ones, because he can afford quality food and access to medical care. He lives in sturdier dwellings that are more robust against storms. He can afford an education for his children. He can help others who are in need. He can put his money to use to build cool and interesting things. The fisherman is one unexpected disaster away from death. He, his children, and his wife are powerless in the face of a risky world. I suppose it is noble that he is able to stay content when his children die of preventable diseases, but I am sure he would rather be saved from doing so. If the fisherman extended the effort suggested by the MBA, he wouldn’t be back at square one as the parable suggests. Rather he would be in a new place, one that I would find preferable. Rubbish. Again.

gruseom 19y ago
You're right, if one takes the parable literally. No doubt very few subsistence fishermen would recognize themselves in the story. But I suspect that, like most parables, this one isn't meant to be taken literally. It's illustrating a psychological point, the folly of treating life as a means to an end. There's great risk in devoting one's life to something not for its own sake but because one assumes that, somehow later, happiness will result. I appreciate the parable because, like many people, I need to be reminded to examine that assumption.
- motoko 19y ago
  Personally, I prefer to redefine "success" to be whatever I already have, thus at all times am I am a success!
  - kirubakaran 19y ago
    Well, success actually is the ability to be able to redefine "success" to be whatever you already have. So, you succeeded there too.

gabrielroth 19y ago

Ah, those adorable happy poor people in less developed countries. So much time to relax and enjoy life! Overfishing, consolidation in the fishing industry, inadequate health care, rising grain prices (which in the past couple years have caused tortilla prices to double), crime ... none of these could possibly affect the happiest people in the world, the fishermen of Mexico! Let's all move down there and buy fishing boats! Surely there are enough fish to feed all our families, forever!