3 ms·

We've had very different experiences with Kratom, then. I was an active Kratom user for 2 years and was very addicted to it. Tolerance, cravings, nodding, r

We've had __very__ different experiences with Kratom, then. I was an active Kratom user for 2 years and was very addicted to it. Tolerance, cravings, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response, constipation, the whole nine yards. I was also in your shoes and told myself the same things for a long time. I had quit a few times, for long periods of time, and told myself it wasn't that bad. But each time I quit, withdrawals got worse. It won't be a mild cold-like feeling forever. If Kratom use isn't negatively impacting your life, your dose isn't escalating and it works for you, then I'm genuinely glad that you've found something to manage your pain. My mom has been on low doses of hydrocodone for degenerative disk disease for decades now, that works for her as well. However, both are opioids and they carry the same risks all opioids do: opioid addiction. It would be unfair to those who are opioid and Kratom naive to pretend that addiction and all the fun facets of opioid abuse are not something inherent to Kratom. I bought into the "Kratom is safe and non-addictive" sales pitch as a teenager and suffered immensely for my naivety.

GordonS 10y ago
Anecdotally, different people do seem to have different degrees of withdrawal effect - I'm not really sure why that would be though, perhaps genetics? You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. Constipation from kratom is nothing compared to other opioids; I just take magnesium and everything works fine. Sometimes I have to go out of the country with work, in which case I take dihydrocodeine (which is prescribed to me, but kratom works much better) - that causes far more constipation (and I also have to go through rather unpleasant withdrawals after very such trip as I switch back to kratom :( Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop?
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  > You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. I was completely opioid-naive at the time. A teaspoon or two of Kratom had the potential to knock me out for a few hours at that point in my life. > Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. I don't have much to compare Kratom with, but I would end up scratching myself all day and night without realizing how hard I was doing it because of the analgesia. > And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. At that time, I would combine Kratom with the benzodiazepine I was prescribed and noticed a difficulty breathing and a drop in my breathing rate. On its own, it was pretty insignificant. > I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop? I bought from different online bulk suppliers and vendors, sourced from different communities and referenced with independent rating systems. Plain leaf was pretty consistent across the better vendors.
fapjacks 10y ago
Sounds like you had some kratom that was sprayed with an opiate adulterant. I've been taking kratom for going on seven years almost every day (with short breaks once a month and a longer break in the summer), and I source my kratom directly from an Indonesian farmer cooperative. This is an unfortunate thing happening by unscrupulous kratom vendors: They'll sell whatever they get their hands on, and in order to give it a bit of a kick, they'll spray it with tramadol or some other opiate adulterant. This is actually what happened with the handful of hospitalizations and deaths in Sweden: These teenagers had gotten a hold of kratom that had been sprayed with strong opiates. It sounds like whoever darpa_escapee was buying from was adding a little something extra. Without any tests, it's impossible to say that darpa_escapee was buying actual kratom and not something completely different and much more dangerous. Which happens, and is one of the reasons that the kratom community is starting to push for more stringent controls (and testing) on the supply chain: So that people can know for certain they're buying kratom and not just some shit sprayed with dangerous opiates that gives them all the telltale signs of some kind of regular opiate addiction like darpa_escapee here. Sorry you had such bad luck with your "kratom" supplier, darpa_escapee.
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  Given this was over the period of two years, with numerous vendors (my email history shows over 14 vendors and bulk suppliers) that were cross referenced with independent rating systems, some invite only to prevent manipulation and investigation, I highly doubt it. The biggest factor in how it affected me was my complete opiate-naivety. I had never once taken an opiate before, therefore Kratom was subjectively powerful to me. Much like someone taking their first drink or smoking their first joint, I became very intoxicated. I think the latter is a likelier explanation than a multi-national, multi-continental conspiracy between 14 disparate supply chains to adulterate only my supply of Kratom and no one else's. > seven years almost every day After two years, my initial doses of Kratom felt much like a cup of coffee because of tolerance. Someone who has never taken an opiate before is going to have vastly different responses to Kratom than someone who is well into their 7 year Kratom habit. Once you've built tolerance and gone through the dependence / withdrawal cycle, you will never have the same consistent response to opiates as you did when you were opiate-naive. Last year, I had the rest of my wisdom teeth taken out. I was prescribed 5mg Vicodin. It helped with the pain, which was very bad, but it honestly wasn't noticeable that I took anything narcotic. 7 years prior I had the same operation and was given the same medication. One 5mg Vicodin has me on my ass for hours back then.

We've had __very__ different experiences with Kratom, then. I was an active Kratom user for 2 years and was very addicted to it. Tolerance, cravings, nodding, r

GordonS 10y ago

Anecdotally, different people do seem to have different degrees of withdrawal effect - I'm not really sure why that would be though, perhaps genetics? You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. Constipation from kratom is nothing compared to other opioids; I just take magnesium and everything works fine. Sometimes I have to go out of the country with work, in which case I take dihydrocodeine (which is prescribed to me, but kratom works much better) - that causes far more constipation (and I also have to go through rather unpleasant withdrawals after very such trip as I switch back to kratom :( Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop?

darpa_escapee 10y ago
> You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. I was completely opioid-naive at the time. A teaspoon or two of Kratom had the potential to knock me out for a few hours at that point in my life. > Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. I don't have much to compare Kratom with, but I would end up scratching myself all day and night without realizing how hard I was doing it because of the analgesia. > And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. At that time, I would combine Kratom with the benzodiazepine I was prescribed and noticed a difficulty breathing and a drop in my breathing rate. On its own, it was pretty insignificant. > I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop? I bought from different online bulk suppliers and vendors, sourced from different communities and referenced with independent rating systems. Plain leaf was pretty consistent across the better vendors.

fapjacks 10y ago

Sounds like you had some kratom that was sprayed with an opiate adulterant. I've been taking kratom for going on seven years almost every day (with short breaks once a month and a longer break in the summer), and I source my kratom directly from an Indonesian farmer cooperative. This is an unfortunate thing happening by unscrupulous kratom vendors: They'll sell whatever they get their hands on, and in order to give it a bit of a kick, they'll spray it with tramadol or some other opiate adulterant. This is actually what happened with the handful of hospitalizations and deaths in Sweden: These teenagers had gotten a hold of kratom that had been sprayed with strong opiates. It sounds like whoever darpa_escapee was buying from was adding a little something extra. Without any tests, it's impossible to say that darpa_escapee was buying actual kratom and not something completely different and much more dangerous. Which happens, and is one of the reasons that the kratom community is starting to push for more stringent controls (and testing) on the supply chain: So that people can know for certain they're buying kratom and not just some shit sprayed with dangerous opiates that gives them all the telltale signs of some kind of regular opiate addiction like darpa_escapee here. Sorry you had such bad luck with your "kratom" supplier, darpa_escapee.

darpa_escapee 10y ago
Given this was over the period of two years, with numerous vendors (my email history shows over 14 vendors and bulk suppliers) that were cross referenced with independent rating systems, some invite only to prevent manipulation and investigation, I highly doubt it. The biggest factor in how it affected me was my complete opiate-naivety. I had never once taken an opiate before, therefore Kratom was subjectively powerful to me. Much like someone taking their first drink or smoking their first joint, I became very intoxicated. I think the latter is a likelier explanation than a multi-national, multi-continental conspiracy between 14 disparate supply chains to adulterate only my supply of Kratom and no one else's. > seven years almost every day After two years, my initial doses of Kratom felt much like a cup of coffee because of tolerance. Someone who has never taken an opiate before is going to have vastly different responses to Kratom than someone who is well into their 7 year Kratom habit. Once you've built tolerance and gone through the dependence / withdrawal cycle, you will never have the same consistent response to opiates as you did when you were opiate-naive. Last year, I had the rest of my wisdom teeth taken out. I was prescribed 5mg Vicodin. It helped with the pain, which was very bad, but it honestly wasn't noticeable that I took anything narcotic. 7 years prior I had the same operation and was given the same medication. One 5mg Vicodin has me on my ass for hours back then.