5 ms·

HOAs are the height of absurdity pertaining to land ownership, I will never understand why someone would volunteer to pay a monthly fee (basically a tax) to hav

HOAs are the height of absurdity pertaining to land ownership, I will never understand why someone would volunteer to pay a monthly fee (basically a tax) to have a group of bozos tell you what you can and can't do with your own property. If the rules imposed by even a mild HOA were put in place by a local government there would be protests 24/7.

_red 10y ago
You don't have to spend too much time wondering, since its prima facia self-evident. HOA's exist because they work out financially better than the alternatives. HOA's may not be for you, but for those that like higher property values, they are an acceptable trade-off.
- Overtonwindow 10y ago
  Do they really? That's the line I kept hearing when I was searching for my home but it seemed they were overly inflated, and buyers were drifting away from the silly harassment and pain of HOAs. Id say the evidence is clear: if you want to truly own your home, don't buy in an HOA. If you want others to make decisions for you, dictate how your home will look, and monitor you like a police force, then choose an HOA.
  - _red 10y ago
    "if you want to truly own your home" Property tax? I'm not here to extoll the joys of paying and dealing with an HOA, they can be a hassle - I know it. However, consider the alternatives: Move out to unincorporated land, build your 5 acre dream home, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. Watch as a dump and trailer park open next door...consider what your options are.
    - Overtonwindow 10y ago
      Property tax is nothing more than the government exerting control over your home. You'll never truly own your home with a property tax, point taken. You appeared to argue in favor of HOAs with tired lines of financial stability, with no evidence. Anyone or anything that has the power to take away your property and home is, IMHO, a mortal threat that should be removed.
    - BeetleB 10y ago
      >However, consider the alternatives: Move out to unincorporated land, build your 5 acre dream home, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. Watch as a dump and trailer park open next door...consider what your options are. Plenty of incorporated land in the US without HOAs. While some parts of the country can't seem to exist without them, much of the country (including where you have really nice homes) do not have them. No trailer parks next door - they can't afford the land.
      - dawnerd 10y ago
        Hell up here in the PNW house prices will be high regardless of what's next door. In Portland there could be a junkie house and your house still be valued over 600k+
    - taylodl 10y ago
      These are the problems deed restrictions take care of, not HOAs.
- BeetleB 10y ago
  >ou don't have to spend too much time wondering, since its prima facia self-evident. You should know: When you say something is self-evident, you will be called out on it. >HOA's exist because they work out financially better than the alternatives. Definitely not self-evident. I've talked to real estate agents who do not agree that it affects house values. My neighborhood has no HOA. Lots of non-ideal lawns her. One block south of us they do have an HOA. Very neat lawns, and houses all properly painted. Those houses do not sell for more. Perhaps it does impact the price of the house, but I'd wager it is a miniscule effect compared to all other factors (size, neighborhood amenities, schools, etc). I find that most people who make the claim about property values use it as a post-hoc justification to wanting to enforce a certain aesthetic on others.
  - _red 10y ago
    Out of all the private gated communities in US with houses >$1M - what percentage of those have HOA's? Point being, the impact on a $200K house may be negligible if its HOA or not - however once you move into >$1M home values they would be almost exclusively HOA. This is the self-evident part of the argument.
    - BeetleB 10y ago
      >Point being, the impact on a $200K house may be negligible if its HOA or not - however once you move into >$1M home values they would be almost exclusively HOA. This is the self-evident part of the argument. What percentage of HOA's are for >$1M houses? A small minority. In my town, all the >$1M houses on sale right now have no HOA, BTW. It wouldn't surprise me if nationally, HOAs are more correlated at the middle price range. Around 1 M most people don't like being told what to do. At the next level, sure, they probably exist just to pay for fancy country clubs or something.
- HarryHirsch 10y ago
  HOA's exist because they work out financially better than the alternatives Of course financially they work out better than the alternatives, a bunch of volunteer obsessives straight out of Wikipedia is cheaper than an array of trained bureaucrats following due process. Some people won't go near Wikipedia and HOAs. It's a quality of life issue as well. It starts with the architectural regulations, which are always 10 years behind the current fashion, and continues with the position of your basketball hoop. You hear the HOA apologists talk as if towns didn't manage to get on top of nuisance properties. HOA. All the oppression of government, and none of the due process.
LeifCarrotson 10y ago
It depends on your HOA. Ours only exists to pool funds to split snowplowing in the winter and eventually resurface our private drive. Everything is run as a direct/pure democracy in the annual meeting, which is easy when there are 15 of us and nothing to talk about except snowplowing, resurfacing, whether we want to change the dues, who has new kids/grandkids/pets/jobs/lawn tractors, and who brought the best cookies this year. There are no HOA rules above those already in place by the township, state, and federal governments. I can safely say that this status is unlikely to result in 24/7 protests.
leftnode 10y ago
HOA fees pay for community upkeep as well, like a community park or pool or splashpad.
unclenoriega 10y ago
While sometimes HOA rules can get a bit ridiculous, are you really saying you can't understand why someone would want to pay a tax in order to allow a governing body to enforce a common set of rules (and provide for public spaces)?
eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
Some HOAs are bad, but to color them all as useless is surprisingly ignorant. They exist for a reason and it's why they are so ubiquitous. If your neighbor painted their house in bright yellow or keeps a busted down car in the lawn, which will affect your own property value, then you might see why HOAs exist.
paulddraper 10y ago
> I will never understand why someone would volunteer to pay a monthly fee (basically a tax) to have a group of bozos tell you what you can and can't do with your own property. Really? Are you being honest?? You really don't understand??? It's so you can tell your neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property. You give up your own freedom too, of course, but no one joins an HOA because they're worried how their own lawn might now.

_red 10y ago

You don't have to spend too much time wondering, since its prima facia self-evident. HOA's exist because they work out financially better than the alternatives. HOA's may not be for you, but for those that like higher property values, they are an acceptable trade-off.

Overtonwindow 10y ago
Do they really? That's the line I kept hearing when I was searching for my home but it seemed they were overly inflated, and buyers were drifting away from the silly harassment and pain of HOAs. Id say the evidence is clear: if you want to truly own your home, don't buy in an HOA. If you want others to make decisions for you, dictate how your home will look, and monitor you like a police force, then choose an HOA.
- _red 10y ago
  "if you want to truly own your home" Property tax? I'm not here to extoll the joys of paying and dealing with an HOA, they can be a hassle - I know it. However, consider the alternatives: Move out to unincorporated land, build your 5 acre dream home, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. Watch as a dump and trailer park open next door...consider what your options are.
  - Overtonwindow 10y ago
    Property tax is nothing more than the government exerting control over your home. You'll never truly own your home with a property tax, point taken. You appeared to argue in favor of HOAs with tired lines of financial stability, with no evidence. Anyone or anything that has the power to take away your property and home is, IMHO, a mortal threat that should be removed.
  - BeetleB 10y ago
    >However, consider the alternatives: Move out to unincorporated land, build your 5 acre dream home, swimming pools, tennis courts, etc. Watch as a dump and trailer park open next door...consider what your options are. Plenty of incorporated land in the US without HOAs. While some parts of the country can't seem to exist without them, much of the country (including where you have really nice homes) do not have them. No trailer parks next door - they can't afford the land.
    - dawnerd 10y ago
      Hell up here in the PNW house prices will be high regardless of what's next door. In Portland there could be a junkie house and your house still be valued over 600k+
  - taylodl 10y ago
    These are the problems deed restrictions take care of, not HOAs.
BeetleB 10y ago
>ou don't have to spend too much time wondering, since its prima facia self-evident. You should know: When you say something is self-evident, you will be called out on it. >HOA's exist because they work out financially better than the alternatives. Definitely not self-evident. I've talked to real estate agents who do not agree that it affects house values. My neighborhood has no HOA. Lots of non-ideal lawns her. One block south of us they do have an HOA. Very neat lawns, and houses all properly painted. Those houses do not sell for more. Perhaps it does impact the price of the house, but I'd wager it is a miniscule effect compared to all other factors (size, neighborhood amenities, schools, etc). I find that most people who make the claim about property values use it as a post-hoc justification to wanting to enforce a certain aesthetic on others.
- _red 10y ago
  Out of all the private gated communities in US with houses >$1M - what percentage of those have HOA's? Point being, the impact on a $200K house may be negligible if its HOA or not - however once you move into >$1M home values they would be almost exclusively HOA. This is the self-evident part of the argument.
  - BeetleB 10y ago
    >Point being, the impact on a $200K house may be negligible if its HOA or not - however once you move into >$1M home values they would be almost exclusively HOA. This is the self-evident part of the argument. What percentage of HOA's are for >$1M houses? A small minority. In my town, all the >$1M houses on sale right now have no HOA, BTW. It wouldn't surprise me if nationally, HOAs are more correlated at the middle price range. Around 1 M most people don't like being told what to do. At the next level, sure, they probably exist just to pay for fancy country clubs or something.
HarryHirsch 10y ago
HOA's exist because they work out financially better than the alternatives Of course financially they work out better than the alternatives, a bunch of volunteer obsessives straight out of Wikipedia is cheaper than an array of trained bureaucrats following due process. Some people won't go near Wikipedia and HOAs. It's a quality of life issue as well. It starts with the architectural regulations, which are always 10 years behind the current fashion, and continues with the position of your basketball hoop. You hear the HOA apologists talk as if towns didn't manage to get on top of nuisance properties. HOA. All the oppression of government, and none of the due process.

LeifCarrotson 10y ago

It depends on your HOA. Ours only exists to pool funds to split snowplowing in the winter and eventually resurface our private drive. Everything is run as a direct/pure democracy in the annual meeting, which is easy when there are 15 of us and nothing to talk about except snowplowing, resurfacing, whether we want to change the dues, who has new kids/grandkids/pets/jobs/lawn tractors, and who brought the best cookies this year. There are no HOA rules above those already in place by the township, state, and federal governments. I can safely say that this status is unlikely to result in 24/7 protests.

leftnode 10y ago

HOA fees pay for community upkeep as well, like a community park or pool or splashpad.

unclenoriega 10y ago

While sometimes HOA rules can get a bit ridiculous, are you really saying you can't understand why someone would want to pay a tax in order to allow a governing body to enforce a common set of rules (and provide for public spaces)?

eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago

Some HOAs are bad, but to color them all as useless is surprisingly ignorant. They exist for a reason and it's why they are so ubiquitous. If your neighbor painted their house in bright yellow or keeps a busted down car in the lawn, which will affect your own property value, then you might see why HOAs exist.

paulddraper 10y ago

> I will never understand why someone would volunteer to pay a monthly fee (basically a tax) to have a group of bozos tell you what you can and can't do with your own property. Really? Are you being honest?? You really don't understand??? It's so you can tell your neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property. You give up your own freedom too, of course, but no one joins an HOA because they're worried how their own lawn might now.