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> This is a very big deal, and may well go some way to explain why for many kratom has no withdrawal symptoms or addictive properties. Take Kratom every day fo

> This is a very big deal, and may well go some way to explain why for many kratom has no withdrawal symptoms or addictive properties. Take Kratom every day for two weeks and get back to me. These are side effects you experience under Kratom intoxication: > respiratory depression, constipation, histamine release and build up of tolerance (which is what leads to withdrawals upon cessation) Each and every one of those. Anyway[0]: >RESULTS: More than half of the regular users (>6 month of use) developed severe Kratom dependence problems, while 45% showed a moderate Kratom dependence. Physical withdrawal symptoms commonly experienced include muscle spasms and pain, sleeping difficulty, watery eyes/nose, hot flashes, fever, decreased appetite, and diarrhoea. Psychological withdrawal symptoms commonly reported were restlessness, tension, anger, sadness, and nervousness. The average amount of the psychoactive compound, mitragynine, in a single dose of a Kratom drink was 79mg, suggesting an average daily intake of 276.5mg. Regular users who consumed ≥3 glasses Kratom per day, had higher odds of developing severe Kratom dependence, withdrawal symptoms, and inability to control Kratom craving. > CONCLUSIONS: The findings from this study show that regular Kratom use is associated with drug dependency, development of withdrawal symptoms, and craving. These symptoms become more severe with prolonged use and suggest a stronger control of the drug. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080

GordonS 10y ago
> Take Kratom every day for two weeks and get back to me I've been taking it almost every day for over a year. There is no respiratory depression, and no build up of tolerance - the dose that was originally effective still is. I am not addicted; there is no compulsion to take it other than to reduce my pain. I also stop taking it every now and then, just to check if the condition I have is showing any signs of going away - I get a very mild cold-like feeling, nothing more. Honestly, when I've stopped caffeine before, that was harder.
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  We've had __very__ different experiences with Kratom, then. I was an active Kratom user for 2 years and was very addicted to it. Tolerance, cravings, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response, constipation, the whole nine yards. I was also in your shoes and told myself the same things for a long time. I had quit a few times, for long periods of time, and told myself it wasn't that bad. But each time I quit, withdrawals got worse. It won't be a mild cold-like feeling forever. If Kratom use isn't negatively impacting your life, your dose isn't escalating and it works for you, then I'm genuinely glad that you've found something to manage your pain. My mom has been on low doses of hydrocodone for degenerative disk disease for decades now, that works for her as well. However, both are opioids and they carry the same risks all opioids do: opioid addiction. It would be unfair to those who are opioid and Kratom naive to pretend that addiction and all the fun facets of opioid abuse are not something inherent to Kratom. I bought into the "Kratom is safe and non-addictive" sales pitch as a teenager and suffered immensely for my naivety.
  - GordonS 10y ago
    Anecdotally, different people do seem to have different degrees of withdrawal effect - I'm not really sure why that would be though, perhaps genetics? You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. Constipation from kratom is nothing compared to other opioids; I just take magnesium and everything works fine. Sometimes I have to go out of the country with work, in which case I take dihydrocodeine (which is prescribed to me, but kratom works much better) - that causes far more constipation (and I also have to go through rather unpleasant withdrawals after very such trip as I switch back to kratom :( Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop?
    - darpa_escapee 10y ago
      > You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. I was completely opioid-naive at the time. A teaspoon or two of Kratom had the potential to knock me out for a few hours at that point in my life. > Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. I don't have much to compare Kratom with, but I would end up scratching myself all day and night without realizing how hard I was doing it because of the analgesia. > And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. At that time, I would combine Kratom with the benzodiazepine I was prescribed and noticed a difficulty breathing and a drop in my breathing rate. On its own, it was pretty insignificant. > I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop? I bought from different online bulk suppliers and vendors, sourced from different communities and referenced with independent rating systems. Plain leaf was pretty consistent across the better vendors.

GordonS 10y ago

> Take Kratom every day for two weeks and get back to me I've been taking it almost every day for over a year. There is no respiratory depression, and no build up of tolerance - the dose that was originally effective still is. I am not addicted; there is no compulsion to take it other than to reduce my pain. I also stop taking it every now and then, just to check if the condition I have is showing any signs of going away - I get a very mild cold-like feeling, nothing more. Honestly, when I've stopped caffeine before, that was harder.

darpa_escapee 10y ago
We've had __very__ different experiences with Kratom, then. I was an active Kratom user for 2 years and was very addicted to it. Tolerance, cravings, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response, constipation, the whole nine yards. I was also in your shoes and told myself the same things for a long time. I had quit a few times, for long periods of time, and told myself it wasn't that bad. But each time I quit, withdrawals got worse. It won't be a mild cold-like feeling forever. If Kratom use isn't negatively impacting your life, your dose isn't escalating and it works for you, then I'm genuinely glad that you've found something to manage your pain. My mom has been on low doses of hydrocodone for degenerative disk disease for decades now, that works for her as well. However, both are opioids and they carry the same risks all opioids do: opioid addiction. It would be unfair to those who are opioid and Kratom naive to pretend that addiction and all the fun facets of opioid abuse are not something inherent to Kratom. I bought into the "Kratom is safe and non-addictive" sales pitch as a teenager and suffered immensely for my naivety.
- GordonS 10y ago
  Anecdotally, different people do seem to have different degrees of withdrawal effect - I'm not really sure why that would be though, perhaps genetics? You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. Constipation from kratom is nothing compared to other opioids; I just take magnesium and everything works fine. Sometimes I have to go out of the country with work, in which case I take dihydrocodeine (which is prescribed to me, but kratom works much better) - that causes far more constipation (and I also have to go through rather unpleasant withdrawals after very such trip as I switch back to kratom :( Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop?
  - darpa_escapee 10y ago
    > You mention tolerance, nodding, respiratory depression, histamine response and constipation... this is odd. I was completely opioid-naive at the time. A teaspoon or two of Kratom had the potential to knock me out for a few hours at that point in my life. > Histamine response from kratom is also much less than other opioids - and I say that as someone with symptomatic dermographism. I don't have much to compare Kratom with, but I would end up scratching myself all day and night without realizing how hard I was doing it because of the analgesia. > And the oddest of all, respiratory depression - I'm on mobile so don't have sources to hand, but kratom has been shown to absolutely not cause respiratory depression. At that time, I would combine Kratom with the benzodiazepine I was prescribed and noticed a difficulty breathing and a drop in my breathing rate. On its own, it was pretty insignificant. > I know there have been cases of kratom being spiked with potent opioids such as O-desmethyltramadol, and honestly it sounds like you've had something like that. Did you buy from a head shop? I bought from different online bulk suppliers and vendors, sourced from different communities and referenced with independent rating systems. Plain leaf was pretty consistent across the better vendors.