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Counterpoint: Programmers don't choose the best language, they choose the language they are comfortable using. Source: at a previous job we had a "use whatever

by bobsam 10y ago

Counterpoint: Programmers don't choose the best language, they choose the language they are comfortable using. Source: at a previous job we had a "use whatever tool you want, just get the job done" policy. After two years we had everything from Perl to JavaScript in the same project. Edit: ... and this project was a desktop application!

jwdunne 10y ago
This is true, from my experience. When I'm screening candidates, I often ask them to solve a problem in their language of choice. They choose PHP, even though I know the same problem solution can be expressed far clearer and shorter in Ruby. Perhaps we are unearthing various kinds of choices i.e choices for best fit vs best convenience. Perhaps that's a case of engineering vs something other.
- woah 10y ago
  Despite its checkered past, isn't php these days a more powerful language than ruby?
  - wtetzner 10y ago
    That's the first time I think I've heard that. I've heard many times that PHP is much better than it used to be, but in what ways is it more powerful than Ruby?
    - fiddlerwoaroof 10y ago
      One nice feature is that it is optionally typed (php 5.6 had this for classes and arrays php 7 added support for specifying primitive types.) Also, the newer parts of the language such as the object system and the presence of closures and first class functions are almost pleasant to work with: for the most part, the annoyances come from the old stuff
  - jwdunne 10y ago
    Not at all. I abused Ruby's metaprogramming capabilities to build a small functional language with operators. I monkey patched symbols with operator overloading to add the typical functional operators such as composition (using * since . isn't possible). I created operators for piping, partial application, etc. Terrible abuses that probably reduced inter-library and future compatibility to 0. I don't think that would be possible in any way with PHP without PECL (there is an extension for operator overloading magic methods) whereas it is with Ruby out the box. If the language allows me to abuse it in such a way more than another, I reckon it holds more expressive power. Case in point: Lisp.
  - sanderjd 10y ago
    I'm really curious about this! I don't know much about recent versions of PHP - what do you think makes it more powerful than Ruby?
eeZah7Ux 10y ago
> Programmers don't choose the best language bad programmers do that. As professionals, we should refuse to implement something in the wrong language and allow somebody else to do the job.

by bobsam 10y ago

jwdunne 10y ago

This is true, from my experience. When I'm screening candidates, I often ask them to solve a problem in their language of choice. They choose PHP, even though I know the same problem solution can be expressed far clearer and shorter in Ruby. Perhaps we are unearthing various kinds of choices i.e choices for best fit vs best convenience. Perhaps that's a case of engineering vs something other.

woah 10y ago
Despite its checkered past, isn't php these days a more powerful language than ruby?
- wtetzner 10y ago
  That's the first time I think I've heard that. I've heard many times that PHP is much better than it used to be, but in what ways is it more powerful than Ruby?
  - fiddlerwoaroof 10y ago
    One nice feature is that it is optionally typed (php 5.6 had this for classes and arrays php 7 added support for specifying primitive types.) Also, the newer parts of the language such as the object system and the presence of closures and first class functions are almost pleasant to work with: for the most part, the annoyances come from the old stuff
- jwdunne 10y ago
  Not at all. I abused Ruby's metaprogramming capabilities to build a small functional language with operators. I monkey patched symbols with operator overloading to add the typical functional operators such as composition (using * since . isn't possible). I created operators for piping, partial application, etc. Terrible abuses that probably reduced inter-library and future compatibility to 0. I don't think that would be possible in any way with PHP without PECL (there is an extension for operator overloading magic methods) whereas it is with Ruby out the box. If the language allows me to abuse it in such a way more than another, I reckon it holds more expressive power. Case in point: Lisp.
- sanderjd 10y ago
  I'm really curious about this! I don't know much about recent versions of PHP - what do you think makes it more powerful than Ruby?

eeZah7Ux 10y ago

> Programmers don't choose the best language bad programmers do that. As professionals, we should refuse to implement something in the wrong language and allow somebody else to do the job.