5 ms·

What are those people (with the right skills) currently doing instead of working in tech?

by mortehu 10y ago

on_and_off 10y ago
Working for somebody else I would say. My anecdotal case : I currently work for a very well known French startup. I am paid a bit under 50k€/y (and no equity). The company really struggle to attract skilled engineers and to be honest there are not that many skilled engineers in a given field in the country. I could get 70-80k€/y in some other less known French startups that do their best to attract top talent. I got an offer for an US based startup a little bit under 200k$/y with some advantages and a good amount of equity. If I can get an US work visa, I am going to take that offer, otherwise I will follow other opportunities but I am not staying with that first company in the long run.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
michaelt 10y ago
I assume he thinks the prices should rise until demand drops off, and at that equilibrium price we shouldn't say there's a shortage. Lots of people would like a rolex and don't have one, but nobody would say there's a rolex shortage.
- mortehu 10y ago
  If rolexes could only be bought from other consumers who actually want to keep them unless they can sell well above their purchase price, people might say there's a shortage.
chronid 10y ago
They are working in tech. For someone else.
lucraft 10y ago
Well, for one, they're contracting. Though that isn't quite the same thing as being unavailable, it contributes to a perceived shortage of permanent developers. In London this is because rates for senior developer contractors are something like 50% higher than salaried, and that's only changing very slowly. (Is the situation similar in the US?)
- user5994461 10y ago
  >(Is the situation similar in the US?) What's the rates in question in London? For permies and for contracting. Not much familiar with the USA but permie got better advantages. For one, massive stocks/RSU at big internet companies (that the same companies don't give in London), and healthcare/benefits that are expensive as a contractor. I assume it's better to get a standard $300k package as a senior developer than a $1500 a day as a contractor.
  - twic 10y ago
    > What's the rates in question in London? For permies and for contracting. Part of the trouble is that nobody knows! However, i think that as a pretty good mostly-Java agile devopsy tech-leadish developer with about ten years' experience, i would be looking at a 70 - 80 k£/yr salary, or a 600 £/day rate. The salary could be a lot higher somewhere like a hedge fund or Google, but when i was looking recently, those are the numbers that were in play. I was on about 70; when i asked for 80, some employers would wince but keep talking, and others would end the conversation quickly. The day rate might be way off; it's anchored in a couple of highly anecdotal personal data points. It doesn't match the published industry average of ~450, but i assume that's weighed down by legions of grunts and juniors.
    - user5994461 10y ago
      >>> I was on about 70; when i asked for 80, some employers would wince but keep talking, and others would end the conversation quickly. Java AND DevOps AND leadership AND 10 years experience? Seriously. That hurts to hear about companies who expect to get that sort of profile for less than 6 figures. 70k is borderline insane. What package do you have on top? I already got that when I was less than 25... Please don't tell me I am the 0.1% The basic standard day rate for DevOps is 500-600 from what I've seen. I don't get how the average could be 450, that's less than the absolute minimum, especially if you also have good development skills on top. Java might be slightly cheaper but not much. Met a guy between two contracts recently who does that kind of stuff (and some others). He left his current gig to join government consulting for £1000 a day :D > i would be looking at a 70 - 80 k£/yr salary, or a 600 £/day rate. I think that's on point. Anyone who looks old enough, can say hello and talk about some past real world experiences will land a 500-600 consulting gig or a 70-80k job at a random company. The big brands and the shops that pay more are more selective (including most finance). Permie = annoying interviews + skill. Consulting = network + delivering. > The salary could be a lot higher somewhere like a hedge fund or Google Then join them. Cheap companies are not worth applying. I actually think that consulting is very easy to do by anyone and it's more gentle on > 30 years old devs (than SMB/startups). That's why there are so many people doing it, it's not about the money (though it helps).
VLM 10y ago
The definition of "right skills" and "tech" is open to debate and basically they're working somewhere else for someone else perhaps at a better job title for a better standard of living. Possibly they're doing the same kind of job for a "non-tech" company internally. If they insist on tech in SV or nothing, its like people who fail the culture fit criteria because they're a woman or minority. Uber and sales and non-tech employers, unlike tech, won't discriminate as much against women or people of color. If a white male can't get a job because of a different issue like skill vs pay, he can Uber and sales and non-tech employers just as well as a black or woman already has to do.
falcolas 10y ago
Working at underpaying, unfulfilling tech jobs. Probably ones which require a simpler skill set than they currently possess. Also, they are typically living outside the usual tech centers, and couldn't afford to move on the salaries being offered. I'd like to see salaries raised if only for the "a rising tide raises all boats".
user5994461 10y ago
What makes you think they are not in tech? Some are still in tech, at places that pay them, places that you may not know or have never heard of. Little experiment: Add 50% to your top compensation, then you may soon start interviewing people who earn around that number and sometimes another 50% on bonus/stock (that your company doesn't have). They are here and they are the people you wanted, they're not difficult to get, you just didn't know about them. Now that you found out, you'll continue to ignore them and keep looking for a unicorn at half the price :D

What are those people (with the right skills) currently doing instead of working in tech?

by mortehu 10y ago

What are those people (with the right skills) currently doing instead of working in tech?

Working for somebody else I would say. My anecdotal case : I currently work for a very well known French startup. I am paid a bit under 50k€/y (and no equity). The company really struggle to attract skilled engineers and to be honest there are not that many skilled engineers in a given field in the country. I could get 70-80k€/y in some other less known French startups that do their best to attract top talent. I got an offer for an US based startup a little bit under 200k$/y with some advantages and a good amount of equity. If I can get an US work visa, I am going to take that offer, otherwise I will follow other opportunities but I am not staying with that first company in the long run.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

michaelt 10y ago

I assume he thinks the prices should rise until demand drops off, and at that equilibrium price we shouldn't say there's a shortage. Lots of people would like a rolex and don't have one, but nobody would say there's a rolex shortage.

mortehu 10y ago
If rolexes could only be bought from other consumers who actually want to keep them unless they can sell well above their purchase price, people might say there's a shortage.

chronid 10y ago

They are working in tech. For someone else.

lucraft 10y ago

Well, for one, they're contracting. Though that isn't quite the same thing as being unavailable, it contributes to a perceived shortage of permanent developers. In London this is because rates for senior developer contractors are something like 50% higher than salaried, and that's only changing very slowly. (Is the situation similar in the US?)

user5994461 10y ago
>(Is the situation similar in the US?) What's the rates in question in London? For permies and for contracting. Not much familiar with the USA but permie got better advantages. For one, massive stocks/RSU at big internet companies (that the same companies don't give in London), and healthcare/benefits that are expensive as a contractor. I assume it's better to get a standard $300k package as a senior developer than a $1500 a day as a contractor.
- twic 10y ago
  > What's the rates in question in London? For permies and for contracting. Part of the trouble is that nobody knows! However, i think that as a pretty good mostly-Java agile devopsy tech-leadish developer with about ten years' experience, i would be looking at a 70 - 80 k£/yr salary, or a 600 £/day rate. The salary could be a lot higher somewhere like a hedge fund or Google, but when i was looking recently, those are the numbers that were in play. I was on about 70; when i asked for 80, some employers would wince but keep talking, and others would end the conversation quickly. The day rate might be way off; it's anchored in a couple of highly anecdotal personal data points. It doesn't match the published industry average of ~450, but i assume that's weighed down by legions of grunts and juniors.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    >>> I was on about 70; when i asked for 80, some employers would wince but keep talking, and others would end the conversation quickly. Java AND DevOps AND leadership AND 10 years experience? Seriously. That hurts to hear about companies who expect to get that sort of profile for less than 6 figures. 70k is borderline insane. What package do you have on top? I already got that when I was less than 25... Please don't tell me I am the 0.1% The basic standard day rate for DevOps is 500-600 from what I've seen. I don't get how the average could be 450, that's less than the absolute minimum, especially if you also have good development skills on top. Java might be slightly cheaper but not much. Met a guy between two contracts recently who does that kind of stuff (and some others). He left his current gig to join government consulting for £1000 a day :D > i would be looking at a 70 - 80 k£/yr salary, or a 600 £/day rate. I think that's on point. Anyone who looks old enough, can say hello and talk about some past real world experiences will land a 500-600 consulting gig or a 70-80k job at a random company. The big brands and the shops that pay more are more selective (including most finance). Permie = annoying interviews + skill. Consulting = network + delivering. > The salary could be a lot higher somewhere like a hedge fund or Google Then join them. Cheap companies are not worth applying. I actually think that consulting is very easy to do by anyone and it's more gentle on > 30 years old devs (than SMB/startups). That's why there are so many people doing it, it's not about the money (though it helps).

VLM 10y ago

The definition of "right skills" and "tech" is open to debate and basically they're working somewhere else for someone else perhaps at a better job title for a better standard of living. Possibly they're doing the same kind of job for a "non-tech" company internally. If they insist on tech in SV or nothing, its like people who fail the culture fit criteria because they're a woman or minority. Uber and sales and non-tech employers, unlike tech, won't discriminate as much against women or people of color. If a white male can't get a job because of a different issue like skill vs pay, he can Uber and sales and non-tech employers just as well as a black or woman already has to do.

falcolas 10y ago

Working at underpaying, unfulfilling tech jobs. Probably ones which require a simpler skill set than they currently possess. Also, they are typically living outside the usual tech centers, and couldn't afford to move on the salaries being offered. I'd like to see salaries raised if only for the "a rising tide raises all boats".

user5994461 10y ago

What makes you think they are not in tech? Some are still in tech, at places that pay them, places that you may not know or have never heard of. Little experiment: Add 50% to your top compensation, then you may soon start interviewing people who earn around that number and sometimes another 50% on bonus/stock (that your company doesn't have). They are here and they are the people you wanted, they're not difficult to get, you just didn't know about them. Now that you found out, you'll continue to ignore them and keep looking for a unicorn at half the price :D