10 ms·
Are you talking about the universe as in the physical universe in which we live ? Because although maths can be used to find out about our physical universe, it
by j7ake 10y ago
Are you talking about the universe as in the physical universe in which we live ? Because although maths can be used to find out about our physical universe, its abstractions go beyond what is in our physical universe...
Thinking of the maths involved in certain man made games (eg chess), those maths aren't necessarily truths about the physical universe.
Maths have been useful for clear thinking to help understand and predict behavior in the physical world but they remain distinct from the physical.
- inimino 10y agoIsn't chess a part of the physical universe? I think I understand the point you are making, but it's not such a clear distinction.
- j7ake 10y agoYes it's true chess is part of the physical universe and I can see why it's a difficult point to articulate. Perhaps one way to say it is that the rules of chess and strategy should not depend on the parameters that define your universe, only should depend on the rules of chess you decide to play.
- contravariant 10y agoWell, maybe, but it's physically impossible (or at least improbable) for all possible chess games to occur within the physical universe.
- posterboy 10y agomaybe if you constrain the game to take place on a wooden board, pieces moved by players. Otherwise, e.g. the ions inside some exotic star may be moving in chess like patterns (for a while). who's to say. Where does the disagreement with the Pythagorean ideal stem from, anyway?
- rini17 10y agoWait what, I thought it occurred already in some IBM computer, no?
- contravariant 10y agoThere are estimated to be over 10^120 possible games, so probably not.
- goldenkey 10y agoYou seem to be confusing particle configurations for conceptual truth. Truths about triangles are truths about physical triangles to an extent. Same with circles although you are probably thinking "but theres no perfect circle in Nature!!." True. But the universe isnt just particle configurations. It's the rules of physics too. Mathematical truths, the ones mathematicians care about, are founded on axioms that have truth values set by our relationship with the physical world, it informs our intuition. This is inescapable.
- j7ake 10y agoI would not disagree that many axioms that we use have direct relationships with the physical world, this is one of many ways math is useful in describing nature. I was trying to say that axioms in general do not have to be set to accommodate the physical world.
- posterboy 10y agoThose would be strangely wrong axioms though and probably not what OP had in mind. Just because a theory with axiom 1==0 contains numbers doesn't mean it's math, at least if it is not consistent. But maybe you are right, math isn't the epitome of human knowledge. It is the art of learning that knowledge. Still, in some way, individual knowledge constitutes the extent of anyone's own universe.