5 ms·

Is Kratom legal in your state? Many people use kratom to manage pain, while others use it to get off opioids.

by markdown 10y ago

curuinor 10y ago
Kratom is indeed not an opoid but still is a painkiller. However, unfortunately, it still can be addictive.
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  Kratom is 100% an opioid and is addictive in exactly the same way opiates and opioids are.
  - sudojudo 10y ago
    Could the next person please source their comment. Kratom seems a bit controversial.
    - darpa_escapee 10y ago
      There is no controversy unless one is fooled by Kratom peddlers' "non-addictive" rhetoric. I don't have the time to beyond Wikipedia, but there are sources cited in the article. A simple Google search would solve the problem here as well. The main active substances in Kratom are Mitragynine and 7-HO-Mitragynine. According to Wikipedia[0]: > Mitragynine is an indole-based opioid and the most abundant active alkaloid in the plant Mitragyna speciosa, commonly known as kratom[1] and biak-biak.[2] Dry kratom leaf contains roughly 1.2–2.1% mitragynine.[3] > Mitragynine itself acts primarily via μ-opioid receptors, though its oxidation product mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, acts as an even more potent and selective μ-opioid agonist but with less affinity for δ or κ receptors.[9][10] Another alkaloid with a major contribution to the μ-opioid activity of the kratom plant is the related compound 7-hydroxymitragynine, which, while present in the plant in much smaller quantities than mitragynine, is a much more potent μ-opioid partial agonist. Mu-opioid receptor agonism is how opioid drugs of abuse work. Kratom contains opioids that bind to mu-opioid receptors in the brain and opioids that bind to mu-opioid receptors in the brain cause opioid addiction. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine
      - GordonS 10y ago
        It's a bit more nuanced than you state - kratom also contains mu-opioid antagonists. Furthermore, mitragynine and 7-OH-mitragynine are G-protein-biased agonists of the mu-opioid receptor - which also do not recruit β-arrestin following receptor activation. It is β-arrestin recruitment that is responsible for the main side effects of opiates - respiratory depression, constipation, histamine release and build up of tolerance (which is what leads to withdrawals upon cessation). This is a very big deal, and may well go some way to explain why for many kratom has no withdrawal symptoms or addictive properties.
        darpa_escapee 10y ago
        > This is a very big deal, and may well go some way to explain why for many kratom has no withdrawal symptoms or addictive properties. Take Kratom every day for two weeks and get back to me. These are side effects you experience under Kratom intoxication: > respiratory depression, constipation, histamine release and build up of tolerance (which is what leads to withdrawals upon cessation) Each and every one of those. Anyway[0]: >RESULTS: More than half of the regular users (>6 month of use) developed severe Kratom dependence problems, while 45% showed a moderate Kratom dependence. Physical withdrawal symptoms commonly experienced include muscle spasms and pain, sleeping difficulty, watery eyes/nose, hot flashes, fever, decreased appetite, and diarrhoea. Psychological withdrawal symptoms commonly reported were restlessness, tension, anger, sadness, and nervousness. The average amount of the psychoactive compound, mitragynine, in a single dose of a Kratom drink was 79mg, suggesting an average daily intake of 276.5mg. Regular users who consumed ≥3 glasses Kratom per day, had higher odds of developing severe Kratom dependence, withdrawal symptoms, and inability to control Kratom craving. > CONCLUSIONS: The findings from this study show that regular Kratom use is associated with drug dependency, development of withdrawal symptoms, and craving. These symptoms become more severe with prolonged use and suggest a stronger control of the drug. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080
        GordonS 10y ago
        > Take Kratom every day for two weeks and get back to me I've been taking it almost every day for over a year. There is no respiratory depression, and no build up of tolerance - the dose that was originally effective still is. I am not addicted; there is no compulsion to take it other than to reduce my pain. I also stop taking it every now and then, just to check if the condition I have is showing any signs of going away - I get a very mild cold-like feeling, nothing more. Honestly, when I've stopped caffeine before, that was harder.
    - fapjacks 10y ago
      The main problem is that the controversy involves a lot of anecdote. Critics can't prove they've actually not been consuming some dangerous adulterants because they aren't testing their supply (since testing is pretty expensive). Here's at least one paper discussing kratom: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133323 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133323
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
bigbugbag 10y ago
Isn't kratom for musculoskeletal pain ? Would it work for nerve pain ?
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  Kratom isn't indicated for anything. If the pain-relief can be mediated with drugs such as hydrocodone, tramadol, oxycodone and maybe even SSRIs, it is within the realm of possibility for Kratom to work for that type of pain.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
vt240 10y ago
I use Kratom to manage lower back pain. It is about as effective as Tramadol with less side effects and contraindications for me. I'd give it a 1/10 on my addiction scale (with 1 - THC to 10 - A Year of Liquid Opium Poppy Daily Dose), and a 5/10 on my analgesic scale (1-Aspirin to 10-Opium Poppy). I don't think the mechanisms are well understood. It definitely wipes out opiate withdrawal symptoms within hours of taking a small dose. And I've never had any physical symptoms from even month long cessation. I like to say 'my' scale, because efficacy and addictive properties of opiates and opiate analogs like Tramadol and Kratom vary pretty wildly. Tramadol is known to have and Kratom also seems to havem some strong SSRI actions also, not found in the other opiate analogs, Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, or nartural opiates.
wturner 10y ago
I have horrid anxiety ( to the point where I can literally freeze up when put on-the-spot stressful situations ) and I use Kratom lightly to deal with it. I noticed I was using a bit more than I thought was reasonable and I decided to do a hard stop and check for side effects. Well, the side effect in my case was horrid restlessness and anxiousness. It lasted for about 5 days. There is no throwing up or headaches, but basically all the anxiety I was mitigating came rushing back times 3 and it's extremely unpleasant. When researching online I did not find anyone else with this experience. When you use Kratom consecutively it's easy to build a tolerance. At the time I was consuming about 2 tablespoons a day 7 days a week for about a month. Kratom when used sparingly is a good tool, but don't abuse it. Generally its doesn't "feel" addictive but don't assume that it is without side effects and use it lightly. I use it about 3 times a week and I limit my dosage to one teaspoon a day. This seems to give me the benefits without the side effects. I don't feel addicted to it and have no desire to consume more than this. Just a heads up :)
- vt240 10y ago
  My friend who takes Kratom for his severe anxiety also suffers from the same amplification effect during withdrawal. From his discription, "unbearable agitation and electric bolts". I'm taking 1tsp/6hr daily but will typically stop taking it entirely when I can get the inflammation in my back down and the pain subsides. I've never really experienced more than a couple of days of what I would describe as mild agitation and unsettled feeling. I can' t even compare it with my opiate withdrawal symptoms of years past: 14 days of electric body, vomiting bile, uncontrolled bowls, violent chills and spending half the day in the tub and the other half in bed with a high fever, and etc. So you're not alone in your experience, and I always wrote it off as Kratom's actual metabolic action not being really well understood, and why I always think the comparison to Tramadol is better than other opiates.
- GordonS 10y ago
  As a counter point, I've been taking 4x 3g doses almost every day for over a year, and there hasn't been any development of tolerance.

Is Kratom legal in your state? Many people use kratom to manage pain, while others use it to get off opioids.

curuinor 10y ago

Kratom is indeed not an opoid but still is a painkiller. However, unfortunately, it still can be addictive.

darpa_escapee 10y ago
Kratom is 100% an opioid and is addictive in exactly the same way opiates and opioids are.
- sudojudo 10y ago
  Could the next person please source their comment. Kratom seems a bit controversial.
  - darpa_escapee 10y ago
    There is no controversy unless one is fooled by Kratom peddlers' "non-addictive" rhetoric. I don't have the time to beyond Wikipedia, but there are sources cited in the article. A simple Google search would solve the problem here as well. The main active substances in Kratom are Mitragynine and 7-HO-Mitragynine. According to Wikipedia[0]: > Mitragynine is an indole-based opioid and the most abundant active alkaloid in the plant Mitragyna speciosa, commonly known as kratom[1] and biak-biak.[2] Dry kratom leaf contains roughly 1.2–2.1% mitragynine.[3] > Mitragynine itself acts primarily via μ-opioid receptors, though its oxidation product mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, acts as an even more potent and selective μ-opioid agonist but with less affinity for δ or κ receptors.[9][10] Another alkaloid with a major contribution to the μ-opioid activity of the kratom plant is the related compound 7-hydroxymitragynine, which, while present in the plant in much smaller quantities than mitragynine, is a much more potent μ-opioid partial agonist. Mu-opioid receptor agonism is how opioid drugs of abuse work. Kratom contains opioids that bind to mu-opioid receptors in the brain and opioids that bind to mu-opioid receptors in the brain cause opioid addiction. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine
    - GordonS 10y ago
      It's a bit more nuanced than you state - kratom also contains mu-opioid antagonists. Furthermore, mitragynine and 7-OH-mitragynine are G-protein-biased agonists of the mu-opioid receptor - which also do not recruit β-arrestin following receptor activation. It is β-arrestin recruitment that is responsible for the main side effects of opiates - respiratory depression, constipation, histamine release and build up of tolerance (which is what leads to withdrawals upon cessation). This is a very big deal, and may well go some way to explain why for many kratom has no withdrawal symptoms or addictive properties.
      - darpa_escapee 10y ago
        > This is a very big deal, and may well go some way to explain why for many kratom has no withdrawal symptoms or addictive properties. Take Kratom every day for two weeks and get back to me. These are side effects you experience under Kratom intoxication: > respiratory depression, constipation, histamine release and build up of tolerance (which is what leads to withdrawals upon cessation) Each and every one of those. Anyway[0]: >RESULTS: More than half of the regular users (>6 month of use) developed severe Kratom dependence problems, while 45% showed a moderate Kratom dependence. Physical withdrawal symptoms commonly experienced include muscle spasms and pain, sleeping difficulty, watery eyes/nose, hot flashes, fever, decreased appetite, and diarrhoea. Psychological withdrawal symptoms commonly reported were restlessness, tension, anger, sadness, and nervousness. The average amount of the psychoactive compound, mitragynine, in a single dose of a Kratom drink was 79mg, suggesting an average daily intake of 276.5mg. Regular users who consumed ≥3 glasses Kratom per day, had higher odds of developing severe Kratom dependence, withdrawal symptoms, and inability to control Kratom craving. > CONCLUSIONS: The findings from this study show that regular Kratom use is associated with drug dependency, development of withdrawal symptoms, and craving. These symptoms become more severe with prolonged use and suggest a stronger control of the drug. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24698080
        GordonS 10y ago
        > Take Kratom every day for two weeks and get back to me I've been taking it almost every day for over a year. There is no respiratory depression, and no build up of tolerance - the dose that was originally effective still is. I am not addicted; there is no compulsion to take it other than to reduce my pain. I also stop taking it every now and then, just to check if the condition I have is showing any signs of going away - I get a very mild cold-like feeling, nothing more. Honestly, when I've stopped caffeine before, that was harder.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    The main problem is that the controversy involves a lot of anecdote. Critics can't prove they've actually not been consuming some dangerous adulterants because they aren't testing their supply (since testing is pretty expensive). Here's at least one paper discussing kratom: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133323 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133323
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

bigbugbag 10y ago

Isn't kratom for musculoskeletal pain ? Would it work for nerve pain ?

darpa_escapee 10y ago
Kratom isn't indicated for anything. If the pain-relief can be mediated with drugs such as hydrocodone, tramadol, oxycodone and maybe even SSRIs, it is within the realm of possibility for Kratom to work for that type of pain.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

vt240 10y ago

I use Kratom to manage lower back pain. It is about as effective as Tramadol with less side effects and contraindications for me. I'd give it a 1/10 on my addiction scale (with 1 - THC to 10 - A Year of Liquid Opium Poppy Daily Dose), and a 5/10 on my analgesic scale (1-Aspirin to 10-Opium Poppy). I don't think the mechanisms are well understood. It definitely wipes out opiate withdrawal symptoms within hours of taking a small dose. And I've never had any physical symptoms from even month long cessation. I like to say 'my' scale, because efficacy and addictive properties of opiates and opiate analogs like Tramadol and Kratom vary pretty wildly. Tramadol is known to have and Kratom also seems to havem some strong SSRI actions also, not found in the other opiate analogs, Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, or nartural opiates.

wturner 10y ago

I have horrid anxiety ( to the point where I can literally freeze up when put on-the-spot stressful situations ) and I use Kratom lightly to deal with it. I noticed I was using a bit more than I thought was reasonable and I decided to do a hard stop and check for side effects. Well, the side effect in my case was horrid restlessness and anxiousness. It lasted for about 5 days. There is no throwing up or headaches, but basically all the anxiety I was mitigating came rushing back times 3 and it's extremely unpleasant. When researching online I did not find anyone else with this experience. When you use Kratom consecutively it's easy to build a tolerance. At the time I was consuming about 2 tablespoons a day 7 days a week for about a month. Kratom when used sparingly is a good tool, but don't abuse it. Generally its doesn't "feel" addictive but don't assume that it is without side effects and use it lightly. I use it about 3 times a week and I limit my dosage to one teaspoon a day. This seems to give me the benefits without the side effects. I don't feel addicted to it and have no desire to consume more than this. Just a heads up :)

vt240 10y ago
My friend who takes Kratom for his severe anxiety also suffers from the same amplification effect during withdrawal. From his discription, "unbearable agitation and electric bolts". I'm taking 1tsp/6hr daily but will typically stop taking it entirely when I can get the inflammation in my back down and the pain subsides. I've never really experienced more than a couple of days of what I would describe as mild agitation and unsettled feeling. I can' t even compare it with my opiate withdrawal symptoms of years past: 14 days of electric body, vomiting bile, uncontrolled bowls, violent chills and spending half the day in the tub and the other half in bed with a high fever, and etc. So you're not alone in your experience, and I always wrote it off as Kratom's actual metabolic action not being really well understood, and why I always think the comparison to Tramadol is better than other opiates.
GordonS 10y ago
As a counter point, I've been taking 4x 3g doses almost every day for over a year, and there hasn't been any development of tolerance.