4 ms·

I respect the honesty here. Basically we are moving towards cities and we need to move faster. Maybe that is the answer and we start a migration plan? Not sure.

by jbhatab 10y ago

I respect the honesty here. Basically we are moving towards cities and we need to move faster. Maybe that is the answer and we start a migration plan? Not sure. But I'd at least like to see some people in the cities say 'we honestly don't care about rural people and they need to adapt'. That would sit better with me.

TuringNYC 10y ago
I dont know many people in cities who would say they dont care about rural populations. Most city-folks (i hate the false dichotomy here, but lets continue with it) I know care very much, but realize there are no quick fixes. The longer-term fixes are to improve education and increase mobility by de-linking health-care from employers. I hung out with plenty of 1%er conservatives (rural Connecticut hedge fund) and plenty of progressives (in my neighborhood in Brooklyn.) I rarely saw any empathy amongst wealthy, elite sub-urbanite hedge fund crowds. As for quick-fixes, the only quick fix I've seen so far is one that will come at a huge cost -- deregulating environmental controls. I agree this will seriously increase rural job opportunities, but it will come at a long-term cost as those factories dump chemicals into local areas. Now that the EPA is being gutted, I can see that happening.
- dukeluke 10y ago
  >The longer-term fixes are to improve education... Being highly educated does not matter if you can't get a job. Also, a balanced economy shouldn't require everyone to be highly educated.
  - TuringNYC 10y ago
    You are absolutely correct. I should clarify that education also includes vocational education. However, I was actually speaking about K-12 -- the foundation for whatever one might wish to do later in life (university, vocational school.) I'm incredibly lucky that our big city (NYC) offers excellent public magnet schools, albeit obtained by exam+ambition+drive+luck. My friends in rural areas (mostly doctors) tell me that is rarely the case for their children in rural areas.
- jsymolon 10y ago
  > deregulating environmental controls. ... as those factories dump chemicals into local areas ... Nope, Nope, Nope. See: 1970's, burning rivers, toxic smog, many "Superfund sites" that STILL haven't been cleaned up. http://americandecadesboyle.wikispaces.com/Environmentalism+in+the+1970s http://americandecadesboyle.wikispaces.com/Environmentalism+... Not sure if fracking is an environmental issue, but a study says it is. http://www.newsweek.com/fracking-wells-tainting-drinking-water-texas-and-pennsylvania-study-finds-270735 http://www.newsweek.com/fracking-wells-tainting-drinking-wat...
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Basically we are moving towards cities and we need to move faster Not necessarily. It might be possible and even desirable to slow some aspects of it down, but not wind the clock in reverse. > But I'd at least like to see some people in the cities say 'we honestly don't care about rural people and they need to adapt'. It's not a matter of not caring about rural people (or urban people who have been surviving off industries that are on the way out, or that once survived off industries that are gone that they wish would come back); caring about the people demands dealing with them honestly and doing the things that can mitigate harms to them from the transition, not trying to pretend that the world is going to rewind to some past state for them.
justin66 10y ago
> But I'd at least like to see some people in the cities say 'we honestly don't care about rural people and they need to adapt'. That would sit better with me. What a willful misunderstanding of the other position. If someone said to you, while commiserating over some kind of economic hardship you were experiencing, that you ought to move into their town or even live on their street, would that seem to you equivalent to their saying that they "honestly don't care about" you?

by jbhatab 10y ago

TuringNYC 10y ago

I dont know many people in cities who would say they dont care about rural populations. Most city-folks (i hate the false dichotomy here, but lets continue with it) I know care very much, but realize there are no quick fixes. The longer-term fixes are to improve education and increase mobility by de-linking health-care from employers. I hung out with plenty of 1%er conservatives (rural Connecticut hedge fund) and plenty of progressives (in my neighborhood in Brooklyn.) I rarely saw any empathy amongst wealthy, elite sub-urbanite hedge fund crowds. As for quick-fixes, the only quick fix I've seen so far is one that will come at a huge cost -- deregulating environmental controls. I agree this will seriously increase rural job opportunities, but it will come at a long-term cost as those factories dump chemicals into local areas. Now that the EPA is being gutted, I can see that happening.

dukeluke 10y ago
>The longer-term fixes are to improve education... Being highly educated does not matter if you can't get a job. Also, a balanced economy shouldn't require everyone to be highly educated.
- TuringNYC 10y ago
  You are absolutely correct. I should clarify that education also includes vocational education. However, I was actually speaking about K-12 -- the foundation for whatever one might wish to do later in life (university, vocational school.) I'm incredibly lucky that our big city (NYC) offers excellent public magnet schools, albeit obtained by exam+ambition+drive+luck. My friends in rural areas (mostly doctors) tell me that is rarely the case for their children in rural areas.
jsymolon 10y ago
> deregulating environmental controls. ... as those factories dump chemicals into local areas ... Nope, Nope, Nope. See: 1970's, burning rivers, toxic smog, many "Superfund sites" that STILL haven't been cleaned up. http://americandecadesboyle.wikispaces.com/Environmentalism+in+the+1970s http://americandecadesboyle.wikispaces.com/Environmentalism+... Not sure if fracking is an environmental issue, but a study says it is. http://www.newsweek.com/fracking-wells-tainting-drinking-water-texas-and-pennsylvania-study-finds-270735 http://www.newsweek.com/fracking-wells-tainting-drinking-wat...

dragonwriter 10y ago

> Basically we are moving towards cities and we need to move faster Not necessarily. It might be possible and even desirable to slow some aspects of it down, but not wind the clock in reverse. > But I'd at least like to see some people in the cities say 'we honestly don't care about rural people and they need to adapt'. It's not a matter of not caring about rural people (or urban people who have been surviving off industries that are on the way out, or that once survived off industries that are gone that they wish would come back); caring about the people demands dealing with them honestly and doing the things that can mitigate harms to them from the transition, not trying to pretend that the world is going to rewind to some past state for them.

justin66 10y ago

> But I'd at least like to see some people in the cities say 'we honestly don't care about rural people and they need to adapt'. That would sit better with me. What a willful misunderstanding of the other position. If someone said to you, while commiserating over some kind of economic hardship you were experiencing, that you ought to move into their town or even live on their street, would that seem to you equivalent to their saying that they "honestly don't care about" you?