8 ms·

This works well if your hobbies include manually editing obscure config files and replacing perfectly good hardware, and if your hobbies do not include playing

by chc 10y ago

This works well if your hobbies include manually editing obscure config files and replacing perfectly good hardware, and if your hobbies do not include playing games. I frequently explore the possibility of switching to Linux, and while it's not the garbage fire it was 15 years ago, it's still just not a peer to Windows for the way I use my computer.

idobai 10y ago
Interesting, gaming is one of my hobbies and I've switched to linux years ago. Most games I play are native and a few which aren't run on wine. The more people moving to linux = more games will be available on linux.
booleandilemma 10y ago
Completely agree. I tried Ubuntu a few years ago because I heard that distro was comparably easier to use and my experience was frustrating. It took me 3 hours just to get the speakers to work, and the wifi connection would regularly drop off. Windows just works, and I'll happily pay money for a good product.
- cyberpunk 10y ago
  I have a reasonably noob-unfriendly linux distro (arch) on my bleeding edge kaby lane xps 13 laptop (month or two old) and even the touchscreen worked without any messing around with config files and so on. It came with ubuntu pre-loaded and I assumed they tweaked the arse out of the configs for it, and so expected pain when I replaced the OS. Turns out I was wrong. Vanilla with a minimal distro and even the touchscreen and suspend worked. Woah? I was impressed anyway.. As someone who's suffered OS pains you wouldn't believe (I mean.. I ran solaris 10 on a hp probook as my main workstation for a year one time...) and for well over a decade -- things are MUCH better these days then they were. Windows? Fair enough for you I guess. I'm not trying to convert you... I'll come off badly here, but I'll be honest: I kind of judge people who use MS tech by choice and while claiming to be technologists as being in the lower end of the skills spectrum. I'm not an elitist or at least; I'm really not trying to be.. Please don't take me wrong. At the same time I'm don't understand how anyone with who works in tech and is thus capable of really understanding these things would voluntarily pick this stack as their daily driver. If you're a photo editor or a journalist or writer or something, sure -- I get why that stack works.. Programmer? Sysadmin? I can't get my head around it. I'd like to understand, though.. What do you do? What tools do you use? Are you just living inside some IDE all the time and not interacting with lots of different tools? Thinking out loud as I type, maybe that's the difference here then? We *nix folks tend to use lots of small tools and if you're just sat in one big IDE perhaps the OS around it doesn't matter so much to you as it does to us??
  - criddell 10y ago
    > perhaps the OS around it doesn't matter Of course it doesn't matter. Windows, macOS, and Linux are all good enough. More than ever, you pick the operating system and hardware to support the applications you want to run.
    - cyberpunk 10y ago
      Well, okay. The tools I use will work on all these operating systems, but I wouldn't consider windows or OSX 'good enough' for me. I suspect most developers could get their stacks to work on everything from freebsd to windows (well, unless you're a .net dev) -- so that's not really the reason to pick one or the other? I don't run linux becuase 'vim' works better than it does on opensolaris... right?
      - criddell 10y ago
        I'm guessing we don't really disagree on this. You are right about vim. It works well everywhere, so that's not likely to be the application that dictates what the rest of your system is. If you use vim and play a lot of Call of Duty, then you are probably going to use Windows. If you use vim and absolutely depend on Final Cut Pro, you're going to be on a Mac.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    It's easy to forget how obscure is a technology to someone who doesn't have the experience and understanding of all the underlying concepts. I tend to do the same with programming. I tend to think certain things are trivial, until I see a beginner struggling with concepts that are so obvious I didn't think it was worth spending more time than just mentioning them. I am a beginner on linux, and outside of a few basic settings, I find myself very quickly in front of a terminal window, trying to guess the state of the system or what syntax could work and not break anything.
    - cyberpunk 10y ago
      Yep so I'm definately being biased by personal experience here -- not claiming otherwise. I've been using and working with unixy types for >15 years or so and probably type 'grep' a hundred times a day (I'm a lead dev). I'm genuinely just curious how your world looks as it's so different to mine -- I must live a sheltered life but even junior devs I have with routinely push makefiles and bash scripts etc.. Are you a dev? Do you just live in one big contained environment like visual studio or such that has all these kind of tools rolled in?
- greenhatman 10y ago
  These things changed quickly though. Drivers that were an issue three years ago will now often just work.
- csdreamer7 10y ago
  Some hardware makers do not like to play nice with Linux. If you want a system that 'just works' with Linux you should buy from a vendor that supports Linux like System76. Blaming Linux for not supporting hardware that the vendor did not bother to patch in support is like blaming MacOS for not working with your hackintosh.
YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 10y ago
I really can't underline how stupid you make yourself sound by writing that utter toss, so I simply conclude that I very much doubt you have any idea what Linux was like 15 years ago – considering that you have no idea what it's like now – so why refer to that at all?
- coldtea 10y ago
  In general, you haven't made any arguments.
- alistproducer2 10y ago
  This is a terrible comment. The OP makes valid points. I run Linux on several boxes and have been a user for years and I still have trouble dealing with it sometimes. For all its faults, Windows just works.
- dang 10y ago
  We ban accounts that comment like this. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all.
cm2187 10y ago
I agree. Linux is a world full of obscure acronyms and undiscoverable CLI commands. RTFM or nothing. I would like to switch to Linux (particularly when I read these things) but I just don't have the time to learn all the basic things the hard way and deal with all the compatibility issues.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  At this point all the available desktop OS choices suck. They suck in different ways for different reasons, and they suck by different amounts. But they do - all - suck. It's truly tragic. As a species, we're hoping to build a self-enhancing mega-AI, but we can't even keep relatively basic OS technology stable without breaking it. I absolutely understand that some of the reasons for breakage are economic and political. But even so.
  - tictacttoe 10y ago
    I have to say that I'm absolutely in love with Arch linux. It's some work to set up, and it's not exactly novice friendly, but once it's set up, you barely have to muck with it—it just works. Truly a wonderful OS for the tech savvy.
    - tth 10y ago
      Use Antergos and skip the convoluted Arch install.
  - stinos 10y ago
    At this point all the available desktop OS choices suck. They suck in different ways for different reasons, and they suck by different amounts. But they do - all - suck. Thank you. As someone who uses all common OSes on a regular basis I am always surprised, almost intrigued, when seeing the huge confirmation bias causing some users who mainly use 1 OS to bash on the others with reasons which usually come down to 'I actually don't know how to use your OS but once I did and it sucked so yeah my OS is definitely better than yours'.
- 10y ago
boondaburrah 10y ago
I have to replace perfectly good hardware more often under windows than linux, with osx being the worst offender (though to be fair, hackintosh isn't what they had in mind). With windows's new mandatory driver signing, some of my hardware will never work with newer windows. I have to either dig up a copy of 7 or XP, or throw it out. Even on 7 it's a pain. The same hardware works fine under linux. Also, your "manually editing obscure config files" is my registry hell. I'm pretty sure every operating system sucks (I'd say OSX's equivalent is defaults.write)
csdreamer7 10y ago
15 years ago is a long time to base a tech argument. I just played Tropico 5 on Ubuntu with Steam. All the hardware was detected. I installed a PPA to download the latest driver; that will keep me updated. > This works well if your hobbies include manually editing obscure config files I had to edit obscure entries the registry to block Microsoft's spying on my Windows 7 system. I have had to edit entries to fix obscure issues in Windows XP. I have yet to edit 'obscure config files' for my Ubuntu desktop in years.

by chc 10y ago

idobai 10y ago

Interesting, gaming is one of my hobbies and I've switched to linux years ago. Most games I play are native and a few which aren't run on wine. The more people moving to linux = more games will be available on linux.

booleandilemma 10y ago

Completely agree. I tried Ubuntu a few years ago because I heard that distro was comparably easier to use and my experience was frustrating. It took me 3 hours just to get the speakers to work, and the wifi connection would regularly drop off. Windows just works, and I'll happily pay money for a good product.

cyberpunk 10y ago
I have a reasonably noob-unfriendly linux distro (arch) on my bleeding edge kaby lane xps 13 laptop (month or two old) and even the touchscreen worked without any messing around with config files and so on. It came with ubuntu pre-loaded and I assumed they tweaked the arse out of the configs for it, and so expected pain when I replaced the OS. Turns out I was wrong. Vanilla with a minimal distro and even the touchscreen and suspend worked. Woah? I was impressed anyway.. As someone who's suffered OS pains you wouldn't believe (I mean.. I ran solaris 10 on a hp probook as my main workstation for a year one time...) and for well over a decade -- things are MUCH better these days then they were. Windows? Fair enough for you I guess. I'm not trying to convert you... I'll come off badly here, but I'll be honest: I kind of judge people who use MS tech by choice and while claiming to be technologists as being in the lower end of the skills spectrum. I'm not an elitist or at least; I'm really not trying to be.. Please don't take me wrong. At the same time I'm don't understand how anyone with who works in tech and is thus capable of really understanding these things would voluntarily pick this stack as their daily driver. If you're a photo editor or a journalist or writer or something, sure -- I get why that stack works.. Programmer? Sysadmin? I can't get my head around it. I'd like to understand, though.. What do you do? What tools do you use? Are you just living inside some IDE all the time and not interacting with lots of different tools? Thinking out loud as I type, maybe that's the difference here then? We *nix folks tend to use lots of small tools and if you're just sat in one big IDE perhaps the OS around it doesn't matter so much to you as it does to us??
- criddell 10y ago
  > perhaps the OS around it doesn't matter Of course it doesn't matter. Windows, macOS, and Linux are all good enough. More than ever, you pick the operating system and hardware to support the applications you want to run.
  - cyberpunk 10y ago
    Well, okay. The tools I use will work on all these operating systems, but I wouldn't consider windows or OSX 'good enough' for me. I suspect most developers could get their stacks to work on everything from freebsd to windows (well, unless you're a .net dev) -- so that's not really the reason to pick one or the other? I don't run linux becuase 'vim' works better than it does on opensolaris... right?
    - criddell 10y ago
      I'm guessing we don't really disagree on this. You are right about vim. It works well everywhere, so that's not likely to be the application that dictates what the rest of your system is. If you use vim and play a lot of Call of Duty, then you are probably going to use Windows. If you use vim and absolutely depend on Final Cut Pro, you're going to be on a Mac.
- cm2187 10y ago
  It's easy to forget how obscure is a technology to someone who doesn't have the experience and understanding of all the underlying concepts. I tend to do the same with programming. I tend to think certain things are trivial, until I see a beginner struggling with concepts that are so obvious I didn't think it was worth spending more time than just mentioning them. I am a beginner on linux, and outside of a few basic settings, I find myself very quickly in front of a terminal window, trying to guess the state of the system or what syntax could work and not break anything.
  - cyberpunk 10y ago
    Yep so I'm definately being biased by personal experience here -- not claiming otherwise. I've been using and working with unixy types for >15 years or so and probably type 'grep' a hundred times a day (I'm a lead dev). I'm genuinely just curious how your world looks as it's so different to mine -- I must live a sheltered life but even junior devs I have with routinely push makefiles and bash scripts etc.. Are you a dev? Do you just live in one big contained environment like visual studio or such that has all these kind of tools rolled in?
greenhatman 10y ago
These things changed quickly though. Drivers that were an issue three years ago will now often just work.
csdreamer7 10y ago
Some hardware makers do not like to play nice with Linux. If you want a system that 'just works' with Linux you should buy from a vendor that supports Linux like System76. Blaming Linux for not supporting hardware that the vendor did not bother to patch in support is like blaming MacOS for not working with your hackintosh.

YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 10y ago

I really can't underline how stupid you make yourself sound by writing that utter toss, so I simply conclude that I very much doubt you have any idea what Linux was like 15 years ago – considering that you have no idea what it's like now – so why refer to that at all?

coldtea 10y ago
In general, you haven't made any arguments.
alistproducer2 10y ago
This is a terrible comment. The OP makes valid points. I run Linux on several boxes and have been a user for years and I still have trouble dealing with it sometimes. For all its faults, Windows just works.
dang 10y ago
We ban accounts that comment like this. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all.

cm2187 10y ago

I agree. Linux is a world full of obscure acronyms and undiscoverable CLI commands. RTFM or nothing. I would like to switch to Linux (particularly when I read these things) but I just don't have the time to learn all the basic things the hard way and deal with all the compatibility issues.

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
At this point all the available desktop OS choices suck. They suck in different ways for different reasons, and they suck by different amounts. But they do - all - suck. It's truly tragic. As a species, we're hoping to build a self-enhancing mega-AI, but we can't even keep relatively basic OS technology stable without breaking it. I absolutely understand that some of the reasons for breakage are economic and political. But even so.
- tictacttoe 10y ago
  I have to say that I'm absolutely in love with Arch linux. It's some work to set up, and it's not exactly novice friendly, but once it's set up, you barely have to muck with it—it just works. Truly a wonderful OS for the tech savvy.
  - tth 10y ago
    Use Antergos and skip the convoluted Arch install.
- stinos 10y ago
  At this point all the available desktop OS choices suck. They suck in different ways for different reasons, and they suck by different amounts. But they do - all - suck. Thank you. As someone who uses all common OSes on a regular basis I am always surprised, almost intrigued, when seeing the huge confirmation bias causing some users who mainly use 1 OS to bash on the others with reasons which usually come down to 'I actually don't know how to use your OS but once I did and it sucked so yeah my OS is definitely better than yours'.
10y ago

boondaburrah 10y ago

I have to replace perfectly good hardware more often under windows than linux, with osx being the worst offender (though to be fair, hackintosh isn't what they had in mind). With windows's new mandatory driver signing, some of my hardware will never work with newer windows. I have to either dig up a copy of 7 or XP, or throw it out. Even on 7 it's a pain. The same hardware works fine under linux. Also, your "manually editing obscure config files" is my registry hell. I'm pretty sure every operating system sucks (I'd say OSX's equivalent is defaults.write)

csdreamer7 10y ago

15 years ago is a long time to base a tech argument. I just played Tropico 5 on Ubuntu with Steam. All the hardware was detected. I installed a PPA to download the latest driver; that will keep me updated. > This works well if your hobbies include manually editing obscure config files I had to edit obscure entries the registry to block Microsoft's spying on my Windows 7 system. I have had to edit entries to fix obscure issues in Windows XP. I have yet to edit 'obscure config files' for my Ubuntu desktop in years.