6 ms·

Run Linux on hard disk firmware (2013)

129 points by vasili111 10y ago

DanBC 10y ago
Here's an older thread with some interesting comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6148347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6148347
- dang 10y ago
  As well as one from last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12219599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12219599.
pronoiac 10y ago
Ah, the site looks overwhelmed. Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20161207215251/https://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1 http://web.archive.org/web/20161207215251/https://spritesmod...
- latently 10y ago
  Probably being hosted by its hard drive.
TimWolla 10y ago
(2013) I suspect from the comments on that site. I've seen it before.
jewbacca 10y ago
> jellybean part ... > In the electronics industry, a "jelly bean" component is one which is widely available, used generically in many applications, and has no very unusual characteristics—as though it might be grabbed out of a jar in handfuls when needed, like jelly beans. For example, the μA741 might be considered a jelly bean op amp. [Wikipedia]
- mrob 10y ago
  The μA741 is still manufactured and it historically was a jellybean part, but I'm not sure it counts as one today. The performance is low and it's not something anybody is likely to use in new designs. I think the LM358 is a better example of a jellybean part. It's cheap and widely available and still commonly used, mostly because unlike the μA741 it works with a single-ended 5V supply (the μA741 needs both +5V and -5V).
Paul_S 10y ago
Before I moved my career to embedded software I was always incredulous when I read articles claiming such and such device has 100s of chips in it. Now I know this to be true I am still amazed at how many "moving parts" each little device has (or to put it more intelligibly, how many semi-autonomous subsystems each computer system consists of) - it's a miracle we routinely manage to make them work. The pinnacle of processor cramming must the modern smartphone which just beggars belief. I'm more surprised there's only one microcontroller on that board.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  It's a bit "scary" because this is a non optimized "controller" from 2013. With today's processes and market evolution, anything could be a multicore arm processor in disguise. You can never be sure about anything anymore since it can be virtual information generated by some logic/source.
  - carapace 10y ago
    (My nightmare is when nanotech gets good enough that you can't trust the written word on paper...)
    - i336_ 10y ago
      Ugh, I do not wish for that day. Ouch!
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      Now thats edging towards the gray goo scenario.
    - anonymfus 10y ago
      In what sense do you think that you can trust it know?
      - carapace 10y ago
        I trust letters a lot, it's the words that worry me.
josteink 10y ago
This one is old, but still extremely fascinating. I wish I had the same persistence and willingness to dig as this guy obviously does when facing a challenge. We need more people like this :)
libeclipse 10y ago
This needs a (2013) tag.
- dang 10y ago
  Thanks—added.
feelix 10y ago
Things like this are why I will never trust any computer with privacy. There are processors and memory systems everywhere. There are so many entry points for snoop attacks which can be completely invisible unless you know exactly what to look for. If your freakin' hard drive can be running linux or a web server then how can you ever trust anything?
israrkhan 10y ago
Such tools have existed for long time. NSA tools catalog had a tool[1] that took control of HDD firmware and provided Application persistence across re-formatting. Date mentioned on the brochure[1] is June 2008. Of course most of your PC peripherals have their own processor, if sufficient documentation is available, PC peripherals can be easily weaponised. They can even have a wireless implant that allows HDD to communicate with outside world, and trigger exploit (send data, or trigger code execution), remotely. https://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/nsa-ant-iratemonk.jpg https://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/nsa-ant-irate...
- TL_DR 10y ago
  We lost the battle already: https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-secure-workstation https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-s...
eriknstr 10y ago
Marked dupe, why?

129 points by vasili111 10y ago

DanBC 10y ago

Here's an older thread with some interesting comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6148347 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6148347

dang 10y ago
As well as one from last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12219599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12219599.

pronoiac 10y ago

Ah, the site looks overwhelmed. Mirror: http://web.archive.org/web/20161207215251/https://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1 http://web.archive.org/web/20161207215251/https://spritesmod...

latently 10y ago
Probably being hosted by its hard drive.

TimWolla 10y ago

(2013) I suspect from the comments on that site. I've seen it before.

jewbacca 10y ago

> jellybean part ... > In the electronics industry, a "jelly bean" component is one which is widely available, used generically in many applications, and has no very unusual characteristics—as though it might be grabbed out of a jar in handfuls when needed, like jelly beans. For example, the μA741 might be considered a jelly bean op amp. [Wikipedia]

mrob 10y ago
The μA741 is still manufactured and it historically was a jellybean part, but I'm not sure it counts as one today. The performance is low and it's not something anybody is likely to use in new designs. I think the LM358 is a better example of a jellybean part. It's cheap and widely available and still commonly used, mostly because unlike the μA741 it works with a single-ended 5V supply (the μA741 needs both +5V and -5V).

Paul_S 10y ago

Before I moved my career to embedded software I was always incredulous when I read articles claiming such and such device has 100s of chips in it. Now I know this to be true I am still amazed at how many "moving parts" each little device has (or to put it more intelligibly, how many semi-autonomous subsystems each computer system consists of) - it's a miracle we routinely manage to make them work. The pinnacle of processor cramming must the modern smartphone which just beggars belief. I'm more surprised there's only one microcontroller on that board.

agumonkey 10y ago
It's a bit "scary" because this is a non optimized "controller" from 2013. With today's processes and market evolution, anything could be a multicore arm processor in disguise. You can never be sure about anything anymore since it can be virtual information generated by some logic/source.
- carapace 10y ago
  (My nightmare is when nanotech gets good enough that you can't trust the written word on paper...)
  - i336_ 10y ago
    Ugh, I do not wish for that day. Ouch!
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Now thats edging towards the gray goo scenario.
  - anonymfus 10y ago
    In what sense do you think that you can trust it know?
    - carapace 10y ago
      I trust letters a lot, it's the words that worry me.

josteink 10y ago

This one is old, but still extremely fascinating. I wish I had the same persistence and willingness to dig as this guy obviously does when facing a challenge. We need more people like this :)

libeclipse 10y ago

This needs a (2013) tag.

dang 10y ago
Thanks—added.

feelix 10y ago

Things like this are why I will never trust any computer with privacy. There are processors and memory systems everywhere. There are so many entry points for snoop attacks which can be completely invisible unless you know exactly what to look for. If your freakin' hard drive can be running linux or a web server then how can you ever trust anything?

israrkhan 10y ago

Such tools have existed for long time. NSA tools catalog had a tool[1] that took control of HDD firmware and provided Application persistence across re-formatting. Date mentioned on the brochure[1] is June 2008. Of course most of your PC peripherals have their own processor, if sufficient documentation is available, PC peripherals can be easily weaponised. They can even have a wireless implant that allows HDD to communicate with outside world, and trigger exploit (send data, or trigger code execution), remotely. https://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/nsa-ant-iratemonk.jpg https://leaksource.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/nsa-ant-irate...

TL_DR 10y ago
We lost the battle already: https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-secure-workstation https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptor-computing-systems/talos-s...

eriknstr 10y ago

Marked dupe, why?