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I'm surprised by the comments here. I am a fiscal conservative, but having taken and struggled to pay for student loans, and having hired people in the same sit

• brianwawok 10y ago
  > The only reason I was able to pay my loans was because the Army paid them for me after I completed my term of service. I tried for years to find employment that could help me escape a life of poverty but could not. Okay, so then I must ask: What did you major in, what was your total debt, and did you research the career prospects of your major BEFORE going to college? Sometimes I think a basic mandatory form that came with your college acceptance letter would do wonders for student debt. You have chosen to apply to be a history major at private school X. Our graduation rate for the program is 95%. Your total student debt upon graduation will be approximately $145,000. That is a monthly payment of $2000. Our 25th, 50th, and 75th percentile wages for graduates with this degree are $20,000, $25,000, and $30,000. This means you can expect to pay about 107% of your income towards servicing your loan for the first 10 years after graduation.
  • Kluny 10y ago
    That would be a great idea. Universities won't do this unless they're legally required to. Student ignorance drives their business model.
    • brianwawok 10y ago
      Of course, but I had to sign stuff like this to get a mortgage. A bunch of mandated forms about worst case payments. Seems an easy law to help reform loans.
      • Kluny 10y ago
        It's easy and it should be done, but I don't think it will be that effective. Mortgages come with other rules. If you can't come up with 20% down, you pay mortgage insurance. If you have limited ability to pay it off, you don't qualify for as much cash. If you have a bad credit history, you pay higher interest. All these things are meant to keep mortgage debt from getting out of control. No such rules exist for student loans.
    • eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      They're universities. They don't have a business model. They're not businesses. Their job is to teach and to research, not to make a profit.
      • scarface74 10y ago
        That's not true. There are a lot of private universities and so called "non profit" universities where a lot of people are making money. Even public universities will do what it takes to stay open - including denying state residents admissions in favor of foreigners who pay full price.
        • eli_gottlieb 10y ago
          Yes, state funding cuts have severely messed-up universities' ability to act according to their chartered purpose. That doesn't mean the charter isn't there.
  • Retric 10y ago
    The trap is far less obvious. 150K $ 4% = 500$ per month which seems doable. But, many things can also snowball. First intrest rates can rise, second unemployment can rapidly increase loan amounts when either the student after graduation or the parents during collage. Loans are often 50+% higher than initially expected for a huge range of reasons.
    • brianwawok 10y ago
      Interest rates can be fixed. Some are some are not. If not fixed, they often have a ceiling, and you can propose a guide. In no case will it be bulletproof against things like unemployment. That is OK. We haven't had a recession in years. People in the last 4 years with student loan debt problems? Not due to a sudden economy shift.
    • nhangen 10y ago
      $500/month is a ton of money when it's competing against groceries, utilities, healthcare, etc.
  • x0x0 10y ago
    Yes, it's a good idea to take eighteen year olds (that have been told their whole lives that they should go to college) and push them make decisions whose negative consequences we never allow them to escape.
    • brianwawok 10y ago
      They do that every day on their own. They decide to smoke or not. Many choose to drink and drive. By 18 you easily have the power to ruin your life, or those of others. At 16 even, not the uncommon to see a 16 year old in the news for running over someone. I propose we give them more information. Perhaps not the end all be all, but at least give them a hope to make a smart decision.
      • x0x0 10y ago
        Just make the loans dischargeable in bankruptcy and the problem will sort itself. ps -- none of your supposed similar items are widely endorsed by teachers/society/parents.
        • dragonwriter 10y ago
          They are dischargeable in bankruptcy, but the requirements for discharging them are more difficult to meet than those for other unsecured debt.
          • x0x0 10y ago
            No, they're functionally impossible to discharge in bankruptcy.
            • dragonwriter 10y ago
              http://abovethelaw.com/2016/01/the-tetzlaff-aftermath-discharging-student-loans-in-bankruptcy-might-be-easier-than-we-thought/ http://abovethelaw.com/2016/01/the-tetzlaff-aftermath-discha...
  • nhangen 10y ago
    I got a B.S. in Psychology and a minor in religion. Total debt around 25-30k. I went to school at age 20 and graduated at age 25. I did not go straight from High School. I did not want to be a shrink. I wanted to focus on research. Unfortunately, I could not afford to continue on to graduate school. My grades weren't good enough to get a scholarship. I was working as a cook at the Olive Garden, and had kids at home, so I tried a few careers that didn't work out. I wound up in the Army because it seemed like the right thing to do. I'm glad I did it.
  • dikdik 10y ago
    And what happens when you switch majors? All of your scholarship money gets revoked? Most schools do not require you to declare a major when applying or during the freshman year. Most people that have a major in mind when entering college end up changing it as well. I think this is telling that MOST people do not go to college because they are super passionate about whatever subject. Most people go to college because they would like to find a job that will ensure them middle class wages. If we fixed the job market (ie prevent jobs from requiring a bachelors or masters when many high school graduates could be trained to do it AND increase wages not just at the top of the spectrum), I have a strong suspicion there wouldn't be so many people going to college for "bullshit" degrees and even if there were they would actually be able to pay their loans back in a timely manner.
    • brianwawok 10y ago
      And what happens when you switch majors? All of your scholarship money gets revoked? Honestly, switching majors if a bit of a failure of the system. Ideally we would expose students to more parts of a major in High School, so they can make better decisions. Most high schools do not do a great job of this in the US. Most schools do not require you to declare a major when applying or during the freshman year. Most people that have a major in mind when entering college end up changing it as well. (Citation required for both of these). I have found it a mix on what schools require. Back when I applied to colleges (2000?), most colleges DID have me pick a major. A few pushed off till Sophomore year, but not most by any means. And MOST people did not switch majors when I was in school. Some did, and some dropped out, but hardly most. I think this is telling that MOST people do not go to college because they are super passionate about whatever subject. Most people go to college because they would like to find a job that will ensure them middle class wages. Great. So why do people major in History and "Business" and "Women's Studies"? None of these majors lead to a middle class job. If you want a middle class job, there are many majors almost guaranteed to get you there (i.e. education, nursing, programming.. all a big demand for people, all pay some form of middle class white collar wage). If we fixed the job market (ie prevent jobs from requiring a bachelors or masters when many high school graduates could be trained to do it AND increase wages not just at the top of the spectrum), I have a strong suspicion there wouldn't be so many people going to college for "bullshit" degrees and even if there were they would actually be able to pay their loans back in a timely manner. What? As an owner of a business, you would tell me I cannot require college degrees from my new hires? Fine, I will remove it from my job posting. During interviews I will ask what college the person went to. If I don't like the answer, I will send them home. You are NEVER going to legislate anything like this away. Businesses hiring want the best candidates. If they feel college students are better, then they will pick them. This would be perhaps the worst regulation you could possibly put on small businesses.
• PKop 10y ago
  Removing loan guarantees, and forcing students to scrutinize the value of the degree they are pursuing will improve the problem of students blindly doing what they've been told to do. If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it? Any possible improvement of the status quo is going to involve pain. Certainly universities themselves could start feeling some of it, as they are complicit in accepting the guaranteed money without any incentive to more selectively filter either: the students getting the loans, or the quality of degrees they are receiving, or both.
  • nhangen 10y ago
    Give me an example of a useless degree.
    • Terretta 10y ago
      One could question the utility of the degrees not received by these folks: http://www.businessinsider.com/top-100-entrepreneurs-who-made-millions-without-a-college-degree-2011-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/top-100-entrepreneurs-who-mad... Maybe 'unnecessary' is a better word, or maybe define usefulness as needed utility per time and money.
  • oddlyaromatic 10y ago
    I come from a country where my education was paid for by other people's tax money. I studied the subjects where my curiosity was greatest, and though I don't work in that field now, I do rely on things I learned through my college experience almost every day, and they make me better at my current job. Overall they make me a better contributor to the world around me, and I also have this feeling of gratitude that my world class education was not entangled with crushing debt, plus, you know, the playing field is at least somewhat more level at home than here in the US. You get the grades, you go to college. You don't have to evaluate the pros and cons of large amounts of unsecured loans. It's astonishing to me how things have turned out in the US. Ireland is far from perfect but we do pretty ok at affordable, accessible higher education.
    • deleted 10y ago
• dupedbutpayup88 10y ago
  > ...the lending programs are predatory by nature in that they know students will be unable to service the high monthly payments, and eventually default as a result. > Do I think people should pay their debt? Yes... You were duped, but pay up anyway. Doesn't that smack you as immoral in anyway? If anything is screwed up in education, it's that it isn't free for anyone that wants it. How hard is it to see the value in having a citizenry that is well educated? How many other cons can the public see, but also feel they can make informed decisions in the face of it instead of "Duped, but pay up" herd mentality?
• jimmaswell 10y ago
  My reading of the explanations on studentloans.gov was that the standard payment was a minimum of $50/month, and that it could be even lower on an income based plan, is that wrong? Was your minimum higher?
  • Mithaldu 10y ago
    If it's anything like the office i encountered in my life, the minimum is always how high they think you can afford, regardless of how low they could technically go, regardless of whether that means they get nothing.
  • nhangen 10y ago
    I think I had two loans that had payments totally 200-300/month. I know one was around $150/month for sure. The other maybe $75.
• scarface74 10y ago
  I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for students racking up tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt to go to a "good school" to get a degree in a field that doesn't pay enough to make it a worthwhile investment. I went to an unknown state college and paid less for my four year CS degree than many of my coworkers paid for 1 year and within 3 years of graduating, I had no debt, and was making just as much as people sitting beside me who went to more "prestigious" schools. I had former classmates that thought they were too good to go to the local state college,racked up thousands in debt to be a teacher or a social worker. Why?
  • cam_l 10y ago
    Removing the debt protections for the industry (ie. allowing students to default) would be the surest way to limit the proclivity of institutions to offer bad investments to students.
  • kkhire 10y ago
    It's super easy to look back and think, "it really doesn't matter where you went to school." and it's true, I've met people who went to no-name schools and get employed at great companies. But put yourself into the shoes of an impressionable 16-17 year old. Private and flagship public universities have mastered selling their product with tours, special programs, the "college experience" etc. In addition, they sell getting a job with countless networking opportunities (especially prestigious schools). It'd be really efficient for anyone who would need loans to get a degree to knock out all gen eds at a comm college and then transfer to an in-state university (it makes zero sense to pay 30-55K a year to take an entire schedule of calc 1 and chem 101). But it's hard to blame a 17 year old for taking the more fun and cooler option than the practical one. I suppose if government and states invested heavily into community colleges and made them "cool" with great facilities and opportunities, more kids can be incentivized to go that route and avoid the heavy loans.
    • scarface74 10y ago
      How many 16-17 year olds don't have parents or guardians to talk some sense into them? Government loans have a limit, especially for non independent students. Parents usually end up cosigning. I told my children they "choose" what college they go to based on how hard they work in high school. If they don't get scholarships, they have to get loans in their own name - meaning one ended up in a 2 year school, lived at home, and could transfer later if he did well.