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> Re: the LG shielding mishap, you're blaming Apple for a completely different company's product, okay. It's a monitor Apple effectively blessed as their monit

> Re: the LG shielding mishap, you're blaming Apple for a completely different company's product, okay. It's a monitor Apple effectively blessed as their monitor replacement. They sold it. So... yeah. Yeah, I do blame them for their lack of due diligence. Why is this their problem? Because, how am I supposed to rely on Apple to meet my needs if they are perfectly happy dropping products a business depends on? > Which demographic and what do you require? Not the OP, but none of the half-dozen developers/tech-oriented people I know who have switched to the latest laptops prefer them over the older ones. I've heard nothing good about them besides being a bit lighter, but that was one person and it was more a "the only thing better is it's a bit lighter" before listing complaints. The complaints range from the touch bar to performance being far worse than older models. Running side by side, it's noticeable just by watching things run. > What? Are you not aware of the touch bar?

Razengan 10y ago
> It's a monitor Apple effectively blessed as their monitor replacement. They sold it. So... yeah. Yeah, I do blame them for their lack of due diligence. Apple don't make the LG Ultrafine Display. Apple offer many other third-party products through their stores, but it's the manufacturer's responsibility to support those. > how am I supposed to rely on Apple to meet my needs if they are perfectly happy dropping products a business depends on? Apple still make amazing 5120×2880, 10-bits-per-channel screens: The Retina iMacs. If your business depends on such screens, you'd get the iMacs, not the MacBooks, or get a MacBook with any of the many third-party 4K displays. > none of the half-dozen developers/tech-oriented people I know who have switched to the latest laptops prefer them over the older ones. Why? > before listing complaints. The complaints range from the touch bar Like? What complaints specifically? > to performance being far worse than older models. They have some of the fastest SSDs on the market [1], their batteries can go up to 18 hours [2], they have the fastest GPUs ever in a MacBook, and how many laptops do you know that have high-DPI Wide Color screens? ---- > Are you not aware of the touch bar? I use it daily, and it's better than the archaic row of limited and cryptic FN keys that it replaces, especially once you've tweaked it a little. [3] FN Keys: • 12 • Have to remember what each number does in each app • Different numbers remain "fixed" for different functions in different operating systems (e.g. F1 for Help, Alt+F4 for Quit.) • Not customizable • Cannot give at-a-glance status without taking up main screen space ---- Touch Bar: • More than 12 • Not limited by physical space • Context-sensitive and adaptive • More types of controls than just buttons (e.g. sliders, color pickers) • Customizable • Can display at-a-glance status such as time, battery etc. ---- As for other companies that offer high-end laptops, take a look at people's experience with Razer for example. [4] All of the over-a-dozen developers/tech-oriented people that -I- know prefer the 2016 MBPs to everything else. They've also outsold all other competitors in just a single month. [5] [1] https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/ [2] https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/13/macbook-pro-battery-issues-will-be-solved-in-a-software-update/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/13/macbook-pro-battery-issu... [3] https://alexw.me/2017/01/what-if-you-could-customize-your-new-touch-bar/ https://alexw.me/2017/01/what-if-you-could-customize-your-ne... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13785247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13785247 [5] http://fortune.com/2016/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-sales/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-sales/
- nottorp 10y ago
  Another one that defends the laptops when the original article is about a Mac Pro replacement :) > Can display at-a-glance status such as time, battery etc. You look at the keyboard when you type? Not my demographic then, i type too much for that. It's probably fine for you. > All of the over-a-dozen developers/tech-oriented people that -I- know prefer the 2016 MBPs to everything else. They've also outsold all other competitors in just a single month. You don't know any developers working on compiled software. And the mbpros outsell everything not because they don't annoy people, but because there's almost no alternative. Perhaps the Dell Developer Edition laptops, but Apple would have to piss me off more than they have so far for me to try a Dell instead. And again, the article - and my OP - are from people who need a powerful desktop for work.
  - Razengan 10y ago
    > You don't know any developers working on compiled software. I do. I expect your next response will impose qualifiers on "developers" and "compiled software." :) > my OP - are from people who need a powerful desktop for work. Your OP said: > Problem is, Apple doesn't have anything for power users or developers right now. > I used to say that their laptops are fine My experience is that their laptops are still more than fine enough for power users and developers.
    - nottorp 10y ago
      > I do. I expect your next response will impose qualifiers on "developers" and "compiled software." > I used to say that their laptops are fine > My experience is that their laptops are still more than fine enough for power users and developers. Well, [part 1] I don't use xcode, i touch type [part 2] and a lot of the stuff i work on involves looong builds and/or going through a few VMs. I also HATE fan noise and I work from home in a quiet room. Part 1 disqualifies the emoji keyboard, part 2 disqualifies anything with laptop-like internals, namely the laptops and the iMacs. I hope that's enough qualifiers :)
      - Razengan 10y ago
orange_fritter 10y ago
> Yeah, I do blame them for their lack of due diligence. While simultaneously absolving yourself of having to do any research. > Because, how am I supposed to rely on Apple to meet my needs I often see people saying Apple owes it to its customers to make x, y, or z product, as if Apple's role in the ecosystem needs to be expanded further. Apple is a company, not a nanny, they don't owe you anything, and I feel we should keep their scope limited rather than expanded.

Razengan 10y ago

> It's a monitor Apple effectively blessed as their monitor replacement. They sold it. So... yeah. Yeah, I do blame them for their lack of due diligence. Apple don't make the LG Ultrafine Display. Apple offer many other third-party products through their stores, but it's the manufacturer's responsibility to support those. > how am I supposed to rely on Apple to meet my needs if they are perfectly happy dropping products a business depends on? Apple still make amazing 5120×2880, 10-bits-per-channel screens: The Retina iMacs. If your business depends on such screens, you'd get the iMacs, not the MacBooks, or get a MacBook with any of the many third-party 4K displays. > none of the half-dozen developers/tech-oriented people I know who have switched to the latest laptops prefer them over the older ones. Why? > before listing complaints. The complaints range from the touch bar Like? What complaints specifically? > to performance being far worse than older models. They have some of the fastest SSDs on the market [1], their batteries can go up to 18 hours [2], they have the fastest GPUs ever in a MacBook, and how many laptops do you know that have high-DPI Wide Color screens? ---- > Are you not aware of the touch bar? I use it daily, and it's better than the archaic row of limited and cryptic FN keys that it replaces, especially once you've tweaked it a little. [3] FN Keys: • 12 • Have to remember what each number does in each app • Different numbers remain "fixed" for different functions in different operating systems (e.g. F1 for Help, Alt+F4 for Quit.) • Not customizable • Cannot give at-a-glance status without taking up main screen space ---- Touch Bar: • More than 12 • Not limited by physical space • Context-sensitive and adaptive • More types of controls than just buttons (e.g. sliders, color pickers) • Customizable • Can display at-a-glance status such as time, battery etc. ---- As for other companies that offer high-end laptops, take a look at people's experience with Razer for example. [4] All of the over-a-dozen developers/tech-oriented people that -I- know prefer the 2016 MBPs to everything else. They've also outsold all other competitors in just a single month. [5] [1] https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/2016-macbook-pro-ssd/ [2] https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/13/macbook-pro-battery-issues-will-be-solved-in-a-software-update/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/13/macbook-pro-battery-issu... [3] https://alexw.me/2017/01/what-if-you-could-customize-your-new-touch-bar/ https://alexw.me/2017/01/what-if-you-could-customize-your-ne... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13785247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13785247 [5] http://fortune.com/2016/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-sales/ http://fortune.com/2016/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-sales/

nottorp 10y ago
Another one that defends the laptops when the original article is about a Mac Pro replacement :) > Can display at-a-glance status such as time, battery etc. You look at the keyboard when you type? Not my demographic then, i type too much for that. It's probably fine for you. > All of the over-a-dozen developers/tech-oriented people that -I- know prefer the 2016 MBPs to everything else. They've also outsold all other competitors in just a single month. You don't know any developers working on compiled software. And the mbpros outsell everything not because they don't annoy people, but because there's almost no alternative. Perhaps the Dell Developer Edition laptops, but Apple would have to piss me off more than they have so far for me to try a Dell instead. And again, the article - and my OP - are from people who need a powerful desktop for work.
- Razengan 10y ago
  > You don't know any developers working on compiled software. I do. I expect your next response will impose qualifiers on "developers" and "compiled software." :) > my OP - are from people who need a powerful desktop for work. Your OP said: > Problem is, Apple doesn't have anything for power users or developers right now. > I used to say that their laptops are fine My experience is that their laptops are still more than fine enough for power users and developers.
  - nottorp 10y ago
    > I do. I expect your next response will impose qualifiers on "developers" and "compiled software." > I used to say that their laptops are fine > My experience is that their laptops are still more than fine enough for power users and developers. Well, [part 1] I don't use xcode, i touch type [part 2] and a lot of the stuff i work on involves looong builds and/or going through a few VMs. I also HATE fan noise and I work from home in a quiet room. Part 1 disqualifies the emoji keyboard, part 2 disqualifies anything with laptop-like internals, namely the laptops and the iMacs. I hope that's enough qualifiers :)
    - Razengan 10y ago

orange_fritter 10y ago

> Yeah, I do blame them for their lack of due diligence. While simultaneously absolving yourself of having to do any research. > Because, how am I supposed to rely on Apple to meet my needs I often see people saying Apple owes it to its customers to make x, y, or z product, as if Apple's role in the ecosystem needs to be expanded further. Apple is a company, not a nanny, they don't owe you anything, and I feel we should keep their scope limited rather than expanded.