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Kids used to get a slap when they misbehaved. Now they face surveillance and psychological torture e.g. by taking away the devices with which they are in contac

by Kenji 10y ago

Kids used to get a slap when they misbehaved. Now they face surveillance and psychological torture e.g. by taking away the devices with which they are in contact with their friends and play games. If I was a kid, I'd take the slap over the other things any time of the day. But both are wrong. Thank god I am grown up now and actually have human rights (that I can enforce). I wouldn't want to be a kid nowadays.

jzwinck 10y ago
If children having lack of access to digital devices is psychological torture, our grandparents truly were monsters. Children have rights but they do not have liberty.
- Kenji 10y ago
  You don't understand. Imagine that some of your best friends are in another country and your contact to them is cut by means of removing your digital devices. Since children also cannot be allowed outside alone anymore, because the world is dangerous, this is truly like solitary confinement. Also, to reduce your argument ad absurdum: Would you take away the shoes of your kid because well, our ancestors once walked around without shoes so it seems like an appropriate punishment. Relative differences are the keywords here. Taking away something one is accustomed to causes pain.
  - darkstar999 10y ago
    Have you ever heard of "being grounded"? A punishment where parents restrict actions of the kid including toys and social interaction? This is a concept regardless of technology.
    - Kenji 10y ago
      Yes. And it, too, is psychological torture. I know, people call it educating and raising a kid. Hackernews users don't understand my point because it is too progressive and subtle to understand. I stand firmly for children's rights not to be harmed, all the way through. All the way.
      - jasonkolb 10y ago
        I am curious to know how you would prevent a child from running into the road given that said child isn't yet mentally developed enough to understand the risk. And they will do it over and over regardless of how well or in how many different ways you try to explain the risk to them.
        DanBC 10y ago
        Just checking, but are you saying it's okay to hit a child in that situation?
        icebraining 10y ago
        Who said anything about hitting a child? We were talking about grounding them.
        DanBC 10y ago
        Kenji said here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13901382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13901382 > Kids used to get a slap when they misbehaved. [...] I'd take the slap over the other things any time of the day. And when this specific instance (child runs into road) has come up before there are always people saying they'd hit the child. So, I'm just checking if that's what jasonkolb meant or not.
        carapace 10y ago
        Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting#In_indigenous_American_cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting#In_indigenous_Americ...
      - sgift 10y ago
        > Hackernews users don't understand my point because it is too progressive and subtle to understand. Or they just disagree with it. Your point is not that hard to understand, but without providing any alternative course of action it doesn't sound very practical.
      - 10y ago
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Yes, most people massively over-extend the duration of timeouts. For most children under the age of about 16 a ten minute time out is just as, probably more, effective as a week long time out. 10 minutes is discipline. One week is incompetence or cruelty.
    - mnm1 10y ago
      I think what the parent post is referring to is the perpetual "grounding" of children until they become adults that has come into fashion lately in the US (last few decades) and that is quite cruel and horrific. It's one thing to ground a child for a week or two. It's another to ground them for their whole childhood as has become commonplace in the US to the point where these idiotic parenting ideas are enforced by police and taken out of the parents' hands completely. In addition to the immense suffering imposed on children, society too suffers from creating neurotic adults that act like children, have no life skills, and complain about micro aggressions and other nonsense when they're living the most comfortable lives in the history of humanity.
URSpider94 10y ago
Yes, can't we go back to the good days when we just physically assaulted our children to teach them a lesson? sarcasm
- icebraining 10y ago
  The parent poster specifically said "both are wrong".

by Kenji 10y ago

jzwinck 10y ago

If children having lack of access to digital devices is psychological torture, our grandparents truly were monsters. Children have rights but they do not have liberty.

Kenji 10y ago
You don't understand. Imagine that some of your best friends are in another country and your contact to them is cut by means of removing your digital devices. Since children also cannot be allowed outside alone anymore, because the world is dangerous, this is truly like solitary confinement. Also, to reduce your argument ad absurdum: Would you take away the shoes of your kid because well, our ancestors once walked around without shoes so it seems like an appropriate punishment. Relative differences are the keywords here. Taking away something one is accustomed to causes pain.
- darkstar999 10y ago
  Have you ever heard of "being grounded"? A punishment where parents restrict actions of the kid including toys and social interaction? This is a concept regardless of technology.
  - Kenji 10y ago
    Yes. And it, too, is psychological torture. I know, people call it educating and raising a kid. Hackernews users don't understand my point because it is too progressive and subtle to understand. I stand firmly for children's rights not to be harmed, all the way through. All the way.
    - jasonkolb 10y ago
      I am curious to know how you would prevent a child from running into the road given that said child isn't yet mentally developed enough to understand the risk. And they will do it over and over regardless of how well or in how many different ways you try to explain the risk to them.
      - DanBC 10y ago
        Just checking, but are you saying it's okay to hit a child in that situation?
        icebraining 10y ago
        Who said anything about hitting a child? We were talking about grounding them.
        DanBC 10y ago
        Kenji said here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13901382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13901382 > Kids used to get a slap when they misbehaved. [...] I'd take the slap over the other things any time of the day. And when this specific instance (child runs into road) has come up before there are always people saying they'd hit the child. So, I'm just checking if that's what jasonkolb meant or not.
      - carapace 10y ago
        Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting#In_indigenous_American_cultures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting#In_indigenous_Americ...
    - sgift 10y ago
      > Hackernews users don't understand my point because it is too progressive and subtle to understand. Or they just disagree with it. Your point is not that hard to understand, but without providing any alternative course of action it doesn't sound very practical.
    - 10y ago
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Yes, most people massively over-extend the duration of timeouts. For most children under the age of about 16 a ten minute time out is just as, probably more, effective as a week long time out. 10 minutes is discipline. One week is incompetence or cruelty.
  - mnm1 10y ago
    I think what the parent post is referring to is the perpetual "grounding" of children until they become adults that has come into fashion lately in the US (last few decades) and that is quite cruel and horrific. It's one thing to ground a child for a week or two. It's another to ground them for their whole childhood as has become commonplace in the US to the point where these idiotic parenting ideas are enforced by police and taken out of the parents' hands completely. In addition to the immense suffering imposed on children, society too suffers from creating neurotic adults that act like children, have no life skills, and complain about micro aggressions and other nonsense when they're living the most comfortable lives in the history of humanity.

URSpider94 10y ago

Yes, can't we go back to the good days when we just physically assaulted our children to teach them a lesson? sarcasm

icebraining 10y ago
The parent poster specifically said "both are wrong".