5 ms·

And the polish killed their fare share of German civilians.. It's a reason that statute of limitations is considered a part of a civilized justice system. Some

by 0x07c0 10y ago

And the polish killed their fare share of German civilians.. It's a reason that statute of limitations is considered a part of a civilized justice system. Sometimes letting the past be the past and move on is a good thing.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago
Does any country have a statute of limitations for murder? I don't think any state in the USA does, nor does the Federal government.
- 0x07c0 10y ago
  Most European country’s at least had that. Populist sentiments are of course against this.
danielam 10y ago
"And the [P]olish killed their fare [sic] share of German civilians.." You're not serious. What a despicable claim. Also, there is no statute of limitations on murder, much less war crimes.
- throwaway2048 10y ago
  Not really defending the posters point, but the ethnic cleansing of former easternmost germany from modern poland is a well established historical fact, over 2 million may have died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%9350) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_German...
  - danielam 10y ago
    See my response above.
- 0x07c0 10y ago
  >You're not serious. What a despicable claim. A very strong argument based on facts ? Between 500.000 -2.000.000 German civilians, from the eastern part of Germany parish in the period 1945-1950. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944%E2%80%9350%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_German... Previous Polish governments have triad to take actions against some of the perpetrators: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/1376828/Polish-man-accused-of-war-crimes-against-the-Germans.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/1376... While I personally is against dragging old people in front of courts 70 years after the alleged crimes (polish or German), at list the Polish do not discriminate.
  - danielam 10y ago
    You're being disingenuous. First of all, my objection was to your equating whatever instances of Polish (please capitalize) retaliation against Germans with German war crimes. THAT is despicable. You cannot draw a moral equivalency between systematic German extermination and instances of retaliation (whether expulsion, spontaneous and isolated retribution, Jewish revenge squads or actions orchestrated by the Russians). Sadly, there have been attempts by some (like Erika Steinbach) to relativize and manipulate history to make Nazi war crimes seem not unusual for the time period, presumably to soften the guilt. Your original comment was doing precisely that. Second, much of the history surrounding retribution is still not settled and controversial. Sadly, it is politicized. There have been attempts to use favorable narratives to, e.g., extract restitution from Poland (!!) for confiscated property or property abandoned even decades after the war. A number of exaggerated, fabricated or unsubstantiated claims about supposed Nazi collaboration have been published as well which were later discredited. Third, expulsion (which was ordered by Russia and not something alien to Germans) is not systematic extermination (see first point). Fourth, ideally, everyone, regardless of ethnicity, should face justice. It is not always possible, but it does not mean that it should not be done when possible. Sadly, of the thousands of members of the SS involved in extermination and massacres, relatively few have faced trial. Finally, it's worth noting that Michael Karkoc, the subject of the article, is not German but Ukrainian. Ukrainians have not yet come to terms with Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis.

by 0x07c0 10y ago

PhantomGremlin 10y ago

Does any country have a statute of limitations for murder? I don't think any state in the USA does, nor does the Federal government.

0x07c0 10y ago
Most European country’s at least had that. Populist sentiments are of course against this.

danielam 10y ago

"And the [P]olish killed their fare [sic] share of German civilians.." You're not serious. What a despicable claim. Also, there is no statute of limitations on murder, much less war crimes.

throwaway2048 10y ago
Not really defending the posters point, but the ethnic cleansing of former easternmost germany from modern poland is a well established historical fact, over 2 million may have died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%9350) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_German...
- danielam 10y ago
  See my response above.
0x07c0 10y ago
>You're not serious. What a despicable claim. A very strong argument based on facts ? Between 500.000 -2.000.000 German civilians, from the eastern part of Germany parish in the period 1945-1950. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_%281944%E2%80%9350%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_German... Previous Polish governments have triad to take actions against some of the perpetrators: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/1376828/Polish-man-accused-of-war-crimes-against-the-Germans.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/1376... While I personally is against dragging old people in front of courts 70 years after the alleged crimes (polish or German), at list the Polish do not discriminate.
- danielam 10y ago
  You're being disingenuous. First of all, my objection was to your equating whatever instances of Polish (please capitalize) retaliation against Germans with German war crimes. THAT is despicable. You cannot draw a moral equivalency between systematic German extermination and instances of retaliation (whether expulsion, spontaneous and isolated retribution, Jewish revenge squads or actions orchestrated by the Russians). Sadly, there have been attempts by some (like Erika Steinbach) to relativize and manipulate history to make Nazi war crimes seem not unusual for the time period, presumably to soften the guilt. Your original comment was doing precisely that. Second, much of the history surrounding retribution is still not settled and controversial. Sadly, it is politicized. There have been attempts to use favorable narratives to, e.g., extract restitution from Poland (!!) for confiscated property or property abandoned even decades after the war. A number of exaggerated, fabricated or unsubstantiated claims about supposed Nazi collaboration have been published as well which were later discredited. Third, expulsion (which was ordered by Russia and not something alien to Germans) is not systematic extermination (see first point). Fourth, ideally, everyone, regardless of ethnicity, should face justice. It is not always possible, but it does not mean that it should not be done when possible. Sadly, of the thousands of members of the SS involved in extermination and massacres, relatively few have faced trial. Finally, it's worth noting that Michael Karkoc, the subject of the article, is not German but Ukrainian. Ukrainians have not yet come to terms with Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis.