5 ms·

Will Apple Embrace the Web? No.

33 points by zmmz 16y ago

superk 16y ago
Dude lost me with "Essentially, as long as the iPhone and iPad are able to retain mind-share, developer support and an unignorable market-share then Apple can shape the lowest common denominator for the web (even if that low is very high, like the best HTML5 / CSS3 support)"
- bartl 16y ago
  He is talking about the smart phone market. You may add the iPad (tablets) to that.
  - superk 16y ago
    Yeah, I was refering specifically to the "lowest common denominator ... like the best HTML5 / CSS3 support" non sequitur...
vrode 16y ago
When you embrace the web you get all sticky
benno 16y ago
Progressive enhancement. When web applications are available on all devices, but work better on some devices than others, people have an incentive to switch -- and that puts pressure on Apple to keep their browser competitive. Note the large number of people that make video game console purchasing choices based on how well their favorite cross-platform games perform on each of the respective consoles.
ynniv 16y ago
"claim chowder" is right... If Apple's plan is to sell more hardware through Safari lock-in, it's time to short their stock because they're doing it allll wrong. Safari can't be "the next IE6" because it lacks proprietary features, and the bulk of its difficult to reproduce technology is open source and in fact, already in competitive use. Even if Safari were the best HTML5 platform, Chrome/Epiphany/(new WebKit browser) would provide an escape from lock-in. And, they're going to do this by not supporting NaCl? Really? Let's call NaCl x86-Flash and be done with it. Running NaCl on an ARM processor is going to be way too slow. I get that people want to see performant web applications, but the way to do that is via a cleaner, more portable VM, like the LLVM project that Apple is funding. So, shame on me for taking a bite of spam thinking it would be meaty.
- pohl 16y ago
  I agree with your criticism of the article. I thought you might find PNaCl interesting, though: replace x86 with llvmbc: http://www.google.com/m/url?cd=3&client=safari&ct=res&ei=0mcCTNDhOI2dlge5nNV0&hl=en&oe=UTF-8&oi=blended&q=http%3A%2F%2Fnativeclient.googlecode.com%2Fsvn%2Fdata%2Fsite%2Fpnacl.pdf&resnum=3&sa=X&ved=0CBMQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNFN2V6Hm7-pr15gPmqc1YnSkgJRjQ http://www.google.com/m/url?cd=3&client=safari&ct=re... edit: sorry I couldn't canonicalize that URL from my phone
  - ynniv 16y ago
    How often do you get to suggest how something should be done only to find out it's already in progress? :-) I think that LLVM might become the universal web bytecode that Java was supposed to be. There is still the issue of a standard library and browser interop that could allow something else to win in the long term, but this is a huge step in the right direction. [the canonical url for your link: http://nativeclient.googlecode.com/svn/data/site/pnacl.pdf http://nativeclient.googlecode.com/svn/data/site/pnacl.pdf]
- stcredzero 16y ago
  If Apple's plan is to sell more hardware through Safari lock-in, it's time to short their stock because they're doing it allll wrong. Safari can't be "the next IE6" because it lacks proprietary features Uhh, isn't the entire iTunes App Store/ecosystem one very large 800lb gorilla of a proprietary feature? I think that's what they're betting the farm on. Devs will keep writing apps because of the gold rush mentality, and users will stay with the iTunes App Store ecosystem. However, I agree with you that they're wrong. Unless iTunes App Store apps can stay compellingly better than Web apps, then Apple's strategy is flawed. Through HTML5 and NaCl, Google hopes to enable a compellingly good (natively supported) UX on any browser on any tablet, smartphone, or other mobile device. This will act to commoditize all mobile devices. Google vs. Apple was inevitable. Google is motivated to commoditize its complements and one of the complements is mobile device hardware. Hardware is a core of the Apple business. EDIT: The question you need to ask, "Is there any fundamental reason why a 'Web app' can't do everything a native app can?" The answer is no. Integration with the native OS won't be so much of an issue on an iPad-like tablet -- the whole point of it is that the OS gets out of the way! There are security issues with accessing local resources like the baseband, GPS, and filesystem, but these are solve-able. in fact, they're already been solved in non-mainstream systems. EDIT: Will Apple go the way of Sun? Not necessarily. There will always be pain points in everyone's personal digital infrastructure. Apple will always be able to carve out a niche at the high-end of UX. The danger is that Apple will get stuck in a rut and get left behind at the high-end of irrelevance.
rauljara 16y ago
He shows that apple is in a position to make safari the next ie. I'm not really seeing any evidence here that apple is, in fact, making safari the next ie. In fact, the first several paragraphs of are all full of evidence that apple is embracing the web, but those are all dismissed without a solid reason I could detect.
thewileyone 16y ago
The author is right. Apple is trying to lock everyone into native apps and by doing so, selling more iPhones, iMacs, iPads, etc. But the web, and Google, is going to pass them by because Apple is not going to be able to change its business model fast enough to meet these demands, a lesson that many companies have failed to heed when planting their stakes in the ground. In round one, Apple lost to Microsoft because they took the position that the hardware, not software, made the market. In round two, Apple is again playing the same cards; the hardware sets the rules and the software feeds the hardware. They'll lose out again ... to Google.

33 points by zmmz 16y ago

Dude lost me with "Essentially, as long as the iPhone and iPad are able to retain mind-share, developer support and an unignorable market-share then Apple can shape the lowest common denominator for the web (even if that low is very high, like the best HTML5 / CSS3 support)"

bartl 16y ago
He is talking about the smart phone market. You may add the iPad (tablets) to that.
- superk 16y ago
  Yeah, I was refering specifically to the "lowest common denominator ... like the best HTML5 / CSS3 support" non sequitur...

vrode 16y ago

When you embrace the web you get all sticky

benno 16y ago

Progressive enhancement. When web applications are available on all devices, but work better on some devices than others, people have an incentive to switch -- and that puts pressure on Apple to keep their browser competitive. Note the large number of people that make video game console purchasing choices based on how well their favorite cross-platform games perform on each of the respective consoles.

ynniv 16y ago

"claim chowder" is right... If Apple's plan is to sell more hardware through Safari lock-in, it's time to short their stock because they're doing it allll wrong. Safari can't be "the next IE6" because it lacks proprietary features, and the bulk of its difficult to reproduce technology is open source and in fact, already in competitive use. Even if Safari were the best HTML5 platform, Chrome/Epiphany/(new WebKit browser) would provide an escape from lock-in. And, they're going to do this by not supporting NaCl? Really? Let's call NaCl x86-Flash and be done with it. Running NaCl on an ARM processor is going to be way too slow. I get that people want to see performant web applications, but the way to do that is via a cleaner, more portable VM, like the LLVM project that Apple is funding. So, shame on me for taking a bite of spam thinking it would be meaty.

pohl 16y ago
I agree with your criticism of the article. I thought you might find PNaCl interesting, though: replace x86 with llvmbc: http://www.google.com/m/url?cd=3&client=safari&ct=res&ei=0mcCTNDhOI2dlge5nNV0&hl=en&oe=UTF-8&oi=blended&q=http%3A%2F%2Fnativeclient.googlecode.com%2Fsvn%2Fdata%2Fsite%2Fpnacl.pdf&resnum=3&sa=X&ved=0CBMQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNFN2V6Hm7-pr15gPmqc1YnSkgJRjQ http://www.google.com/m/url?cd=3&client=safari&ct=re... edit: sorry I couldn't canonicalize that URL from my phone
- ynniv 16y ago
  How often do you get to suggest how something should be done only to find out it's already in progress? :-) I think that LLVM might become the universal web bytecode that Java was supposed to be. There is still the issue of a standard library and browser interop that could allow something else to win in the long term, but this is a huge step in the right direction. [the canonical url for your link: http://nativeclient.googlecode.com/svn/data/site/pnacl.pdf http://nativeclient.googlecode.com/svn/data/site/pnacl.pdf]
stcredzero 16y ago
If Apple's plan is to sell more hardware through Safari lock-in, it's time to short their stock because they're doing it allll wrong. Safari can't be "the next IE6" because it lacks proprietary features Uhh, isn't the entire iTunes App Store/ecosystem one very large 800lb gorilla of a proprietary feature? I think that's what they're betting the farm on. Devs will keep writing apps because of the gold rush mentality, and users will stay with the iTunes App Store ecosystem. However, I agree with you that they're wrong. Unless iTunes App Store apps can stay compellingly better than Web apps, then Apple's strategy is flawed. Through HTML5 and NaCl, Google hopes to enable a compellingly good (natively supported) UX on any browser on any tablet, smartphone, or other mobile device. This will act to commoditize all mobile devices. Google vs. Apple was inevitable. Google is motivated to commoditize its complements and one of the complements is mobile device hardware. Hardware is a core of the Apple business. EDIT: The question you need to ask, "Is there any fundamental reason why a 'Web app' can't do everything a native app can?" The answer is no. Integration with the native OS won't be so much of an issue on an iPad-like tablet -- the whole point of it is that the OS gets out of the way! There are security issues with accessing local resources like the baseband, GPS, and filesystem, but these are solve-able. in fact, they're already been solved in non-mainstream systems. EDIT: Will Apple go the way of Sun? Not necessarily. There will always be pain points in everyone's personal digital infrastructure. Apple will always be able to carve out a niche at the high-end of UX. The danger is that Apple will get stuck in a rut and get left behind at the high-end of irrelevance.

rauljara 16y ago

He shows that apple is in a position to make safari the next ie. I'm not really seeing any evidence here that apple is, in fact, making safari the next ie. In fact, the first several paragraphs of are all full of evidence that apple is embracing the web, but those are all dismissed without a solid reason I could detect.

thewileyone 16y ago

The author is right. Apple is trying to lock everyone into native apps and by doing so, selling more iPhones, iMacs, iPads, etc. But the web, and Google, is going to pass them by because Apple is not going to be able to change its business model fast enough to meet these demands, a lesson that many companies have failed to heed when planting their stakes in the ground. In round one, Apple lost to Microsoft because they took the position that the hardware, not software, made the market. In round two, Apple is again playing the same cards; the hardware sets the rules and the software feeds the hardware. They'll lose out again ... to Google.