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Haha. Looks like the punch bowl is empty. Somebody make another round of kool-aid! You know, I've heard this type of irritating comment so many times over the

Haha. Looks like the punch bowl is empty. Somebody make another round of kool-aid! You know, I've heard this type of irritating comment so many times over the years. I've been on HN since day two of its public launch, back when it was called Startup News. It was a magical time, mostly because everyone was universally supportive. This isn't a rose-tinted view of the past, or selective memory. It was the reason I was blown away by this internet community. The cynical comments would pop up on Reddit, mostly from pg's essay posts. I couldn't understand their point of view. Were they jealous? Did they care so much about what other people were doing with their lives that they would choose to mock them publicly? I didn't know, but I felt lucky that HN wasn't one of those places. Then as HN grew, it started here. Mostly people remained supportive, but there was this undercurrent of negativity that kept creeping in, proportional to HN's size. Now I wake up nearly a decade later to see many people who share your ideas, that only fools would dare gamble their youth, that taking anything but the safe and rational route is "drinking kool-aid," that pg's essays are manipulative, and so on. And so I realize that YC founders now have their own community, separate from HN, and the electrifying experience of the early days of Startup News is no longer present. But I was there. I saw it, I flew to SF and met a bunch of YC co's, I saw their optimism and courage, and you could not be more mistaken about the type of people they are. I'm not saying that it's all wonderful, or that they're giants, or that there are "normal" people and "special" people interested in startups. I'm saying that startups are started by regular people, like you and me, and that without a supportive community, it's incredibly difficult to start anything. I didn't even care about getting rich. I just wanted to help somehow. But I'm just happy that their community grows and grows and becomes stronger in spite of your negative voice, and all the negative voices across the internet. It seems like proof that you have to not care what people think to get things done.

raspasov 10y ago
Thumbs up. If this is getting down voted, all bets are off.
koolba 10y ago
I'm not saying that pursuing a startup is always a bad idea. I'm saying that romanticizing living in somebody else's closet as part of the startup journey is wrong. Building something that people what is what counts. Getting customers to pay you for it is what counts. Having profits is what counts. Software (and startups in general) doesn't get created because you're eating beans and rice, heated off a hot-plate, in the closet of your friends apartment. It gets created when you sit down to do real work. > But I was there. I saw it, I flew to SF and met a bunch of YC co's, I saw their optimism and courage, and you could not be more mistaken about the type of people they are. There's nothing courageous about taking unnecessary risks. That's called being foolish. Again, I'm not saying don't take risks. To win big you have to bet big. But it's not the risks or bets that matter, it's the pay off. That's what has to make sense. > But I'm just happy that their community grows and grows and becomes stronger in spite of your negative voice, and all the negative voices across the internet. Reality always has a negative tone to it. If it didn't, we wouldn't need idealists. > It seems like proof that you have to not care what people think to get things done. Well this I can agree on.
- sillysaurus3 10y ago
  I'm not saying that pursuing a startup is always a bad idea. I'm saying that romanticizing living in somebody else's closet as part of the startup journey is wrong. They are rational, intelligent adults, and they don't need or want anyone to be outraged on their behalf.
  - ruleabidinguser 10y ago
    I'm not sure where you got the impression he was outraged on their behalf. Clearly they were ok with it, but the person's point seems to be "don't get the wrong idea that living like this is good"
    - sillysaurus3 10y ago
      Why tell anyone how they should be living? Or look down on them for it? Or advise people that they should keep their head down and not chase their dreams (as in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13900883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13900883)? What exactly were you going to do with your youth that was so much more interesting that you'd do that instead of creating your own business while having the full force of YC alums pushing you on? If you want to do something else, great. It's perfectly ok to spend your youth however you want. There's nothing wrong with choosing a safe path. But if people want to chase their dreams in irrational ways, then cheer for them!
      - koolba 10y ago
        I didn't say to not chase ones dreams. I said don't be a fool about it. There's no need to live like this to pursue a startup and I'll call out anyone I see romanticizing it as wrong 7 days a week. > But if people want to chase their dreams in irrational ways, then cheer for them! Everybody loves rooting for the crazy underdog but that doesn't mean we want people we care about to be in their situation. In a sibling comment someone referenced being an actor/waiter in Hollywood. I think it's a great non-tech example of reality vs romanticized "follow your dream" stories.
hyperpallium 10y ago
Whenever there is adventure, there is a threshold guardian warning of the dangers. We would do well to remember that without the threshold guardian, there could be no adventure. It's a pity they're on the adventurers' website though, while the adventurers have moved on...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
wikibob 10y ago
Also you made an important point which I think has been completely overlooked by many here. HackerNews no longer has the regular presence of those involved in YC, because there's now BookFace which looks to have came about around 2015. > "And so I realize that YC founders now have their own community, separate from HN, and the electrifying experience of the early days of Startup News is no longer present." Which is called out in the article > "My first line of defense when encountering a problem is Bookface , a private forum for Y Combinator alumni."
CPLX 10y ago
There are reasons for this. The community is no longer is a small upstart community, it represents the ruling class in our society, and people are literally terrified of how the tech sector is going to change their lives. The most fundamental political and social issue of our entire generation is the rapidly accelerating rise in economic inequality. Huge swaths of our society feel, correctly, like they are being systematically excluded from even being able to participate in the culture they were born in. They can't treat sick family members, they can't retire, they can't get jobs with paid time off and benefits. They, correctly, consider this community to be one of the forces causing these changes. Their lives are, literally, being disrupted. Class resentment is arguably the most powerful force in politics and history, ever. It's the underpinning of ever major revolution and social upheaval. The YC founders are billionaires now. That matters. Why can't we just keep eating cake, you say? Perhaps we should look out the window and past the gatehouse, as there are torches and pitchforks gathering.

raspasov 10y ago

Thumbs up. If this is getting down voted, all bets are off.

koolba 10y ago

I'm not saying that pursuing a startup is always a bad idea. I'm saying that romanticizing living in somebody else's closet as part of the startup journey is wrong. Building something that people what is what counts. Getting customers to pay you for it is what counts. Having profits is what counts. Software (and startups in general) doesn't get created because you're eating beans and rice, heated off a hot-plate, in the closet of your friends apartment. It gets created when you sit down to do real work. > But I was there. I saw it, I flew to SF and met a bunch of YC co's, I saw their optimism and courage, and you could not be more mistaken about the type of people they are. There's nothing courageous about taking unnecessary risks. That's called being foolish. Again, I'm not saying don't take risks. To win big you have to bet big. But it's not the risks or bets that matter, it's the pay off. That's what has to make sense. > But I'm just happy that their community grows and grows and becomes stronger in spite of your negative voice, and all the negative voices across the internet. Reality always has a negative tone to it. If it didn't, we wouldn't need idealists. > It seems like proof that you have to not care what people think to get things done. Well this I can agree on.

sillysaurus3 10y ago
I'm not saying that pursuing a startup is always a bad idea. I'm saying that romanticizing living in somebody else's closet as part of the startup journey is wrong. They are rational, intelligent adults, and they don't need or want anyone to be outraged on their behalf.
- ruleabidinguser 10y ago
  I'm not sure where you got the impression he was outraged on their behalf. Clearly they were ok with it, but the person's point seems to be "don't get the wrong idea that living like this is good"
  - sillysaurus3 10y ago
    Why tell anyone how they should be living? Or look down on them for it? Or advise people that they should keep their head down and not chase their dreams (as in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13900883 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13900883)? What exactly were you going to do with your youth that was so much more interesting that you'd do that instead of creating your own business while having the full force of YC alums pushing you on? If you want to do something else, great. It's perfectly ok to spend your youth however you want. There's nothing wrong with choosing a safe path. But if people want to chase their dreams in irrational ways, then cheer for them!
    - koolba 10y ago
      I didn't say to not chase ones dreams. I said don't be a fool about it. There's no need to live like this to pursue a startup and I'll call out anyone I see romanticizing it as wrong 7 days a week. > But if people want to chase their dreams in irrational ways, then cheer for them! Everybody loves rooting for the crazy underdog but that doesn't mean we want people we care about to be in their situation. In a sibling comment someone referenced being an actor/waiter in Hollywood. I think it's a great non-tech example of reality vs romanticized "follow your dream" stories.

hyperpallium 10y ago

Whenever there is adventure, there is a threshold guardian warning of the dangers. We would do well to remember that without the threshold guardian, there could be no adventure. It's a pity they're on the adventurers' website though, while the adventurers have moved on...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

wikibob 10y ago

Also you made an important point which I think has been completely overlooked by many here. HackerNews no longer has the regular presence of those involved in YC, because there's now BookFace which looks to have came about around 2015. > "And so I realize that YC founders now have their own community, separate from HN, and the electrifying experience of the early days of Startup News is no longer present." Which is called out in the article > "My first line of defense when encountering a problem is Bookface , a private forum for Y Combinator alumni."

CPLX 10y ago

There are reasons for this. The community is no longer is a small upstart community, it represents the ruling class in our society, and people are literally terrified of how the tech sector is going to change their lives. The most fundamental political and social issue of our entire generation is the rapidly accelerating rise in economic inequality. Huge swaths of our society feel, correctly, like they are being systematically excluded from even being able to participate in the culture they were born in. They can't treat sick family members, they can't retire, they can't get jobs with paid time off and benefits. They, correctly, consider this community to be one of the forces causing these changes. Their lives are, literally, being disrupted. Class resentment is arguably the most powerful force in politics and history, ever. It's the underpinning of ever major revolution and social upheaval. The YC founders are billionaires now. That matters. Why can't we just keep eating cake, you say? Perhaps we should look out the window and past the gatehouse, as there are torches and pitchforks gathering.